Sniper: Removal from CTF maps?
 

People are always talking about the sniper class. It can certainly be an annoyance sometimes when you are trying your bestest to play capture the flag, however, it could also be argued that while the sniper class may not be that useful as far as defense is concerned, the sniper does has it's uses. Now, please read each poll answer carefully.

Poll?????

But yeah I'm down for this

That is a dumb idea, really. I mean just because people get whiny about midmap snipers doesen't mean the class should be removed.. If snipers really become such a pain in the butt you should focus on making better maps with more alternate routes to the enemy base. That's right, I'm looking at you Aardvark!

last-option, nobrainer, if the sniper is good enough to attract attention from the enemy team, then he plays a vaild role to pull pressure from the inbase-def. But the current sniper is ridiculous weak that he'll never be used in any clan-game.

The problem with the sniper is not that he's weak. Last I checked a 1-shot kill could never been considered a weakness. It's just that he's an annoyance and doesn't fit with the theme of the game. I'm all for molding the sniper around the game instead of having maps molded around the sniper.

The reason why Sniper could be up for such a satisfying hanging is because majority of the time in TFC we could deal with any sniper (unless we're talking Rock2 - old skool!) via the simple grenade. Now its not possible to dismember that fellow class at all, and they are not so useless at close fight scenarios(they still aint great but theres a reason for it).

Class limits are bad unless its for a themed server. Any league that employs class limits is also cutting down the lesser informed or more inventive clans, and generally taking away some of the fun. TFC was about random situations.. random servers.. random camping etc etc etc. I think that whole tradition was what kept it going so long.

There's no reason to remove any class, including the sniper. If there is an unbalanced area, then we balance it and that's that.

I think the sniper should be changed up a little bit.

But it's more reasonable to leave it the way it is than remove it entirely. Of course, the most reasonable decision would be to tweak the sniper so that the class is more balanced.

Ok, I think the verdict is in on this one: 30 No's and 4 Yes'.

Thanks for voting everyone.:)

I think people are missing the point.

When I first suggested this, I had the idea that the Sniper doesn't work in CTF, just like the demoman doesn't work in Hunted.

Some classes don't fit some gamemodes, and I think the Sniper doesn't fit in CTF by default. If a map were made that better supported a Sniper's role, using Lua he could be added very easily. I just don't think the Sniper works in most CTF maps, nor should he have to.

you're completely missing the point. the problem with snipers is that on ctf maps they do basically sod all to help their team, but noobs don't realise this and think that if they get a shit load of kills midmap then that surely must be pwnage... this is a massive barrier that stops them developing as players, and stops them from ever really experiencing the core parts of FF's gameplay that make it so cool. so the problem isn't that the sniper is too effective atm, it's actually the exact opposite - and at the same time some newer players also find them annoying and frustrating to play against, so overall it's a complete lose/lose scenario atm. imo the answer is to revamp the class to make him into a decent longish range defence class (i.e. more effective at longer ranges than the existing def classes) that is actually a valid choice as part of an organised def, is hopefully not annoying and frustrating for newer players to play against, and that most importantly functions best as part of a team rather than as a lonegun.

i've been thinking about how to do this (while also keeping the ppl who rly like the way the sniper works atm and in tfc as happy as possible) for a v long time now, and i've finally got an idea that i rly like, so i'll talk it over with shok sometime and see what he thinks. if everyone keeps thinking about it then i'm sure we can come up with something sweet eventually.

looking at the bigger picture, i think we can apply this theory of looking at what classes we should allow for each gamemode, not just snipers in CTF. i'm down with the idea though.

I think sniper matches with the CTF mode just fine. If someone's stealing something from your base and running away, you're going to radio the gun you have on top of the building to take him out.

Mold him after "The Usual Suspects" character Michael McManus, make him a good long distance guy, get rid of the "auto rifle" and give him a semi-powerful handgun that only has a bullet range EXTREMELY close to him, after that the bullet's have no effect. A sniper should never be terribly effective in semi-close combat. He should either be very far away, or have a hand-gun to your head.

Scuzzy

As I said before, sniper should carry some revolver or Desert Eagle, whatever , but it has to do high damage with low rate of fire in close distance.

i know, how about.... a sniper rifle?

Sniper rifle isnt any kind of handgun.

snipers are weak, that one shot kill your talking about only works for medic, scout and engineer and demo

a full shot cant kill a pyro, soldier or HW after the nerf.

maybe pyro but hitboxes still suck and always registers low

anyway my pooint is, snipers arent as powerful as all the complainers whine about.
they whine because they are dieing on route to flag. and last i checked, that was the idea of a ctf map.
so if a sniper stops you, makes you respawn and try again, that gives the defense time to rebuild that sentry, or get grenade pack etc...


just because clans dont use snipers, does not mean they are not useful.
and lets not forget, public servers are for fun. and cnipers sure are fun to use. hell try using one in tf2. they are a pile of crap, impossible to control and not enough cover...

one thing about ff is they kept what made the sniper so much fun from tfc.
if they change that a lot of players will be sad.

and i am all about getting rid of the ar, and even the nailgun, just give the sniper a pistol like people are saying. one that also gives bonus headshot damage, that would be the shit!

If both teams have a sniper than they are too busy killing each other to really defend.

sniper needs to be improved much, maybe not to qwtf-level, but right now hes a joke. Then make the pyro a counter-class, almost invincible against sniperbullets, and suddenly both classes have a right to exist.

She swallowed the spider to catch the fly.

I'm still in favor of making the Sniper have an accurate, decent damage (super shotgun level) sniper rifle with a shorter charge time, lower overall damage, faster refire, and other bonuses for fully-charged shots. Something like stronger push, or a longer radiotag duration. Stuff that's been posted before, just combined in different ways.