@PubEngys: Learn 2 Play

Bridget · 09-04-2009, 06:23 AM

This debate has stormed since the beginning. Is the Engineer balanced? Is the Sentry gun balanced. Do we know the answer? Yes we do. The answer is no, they're not balanced. Is that a problem? No, it's not. In fact, it's supposed to be that way. Orly? Yarly.

I finally understand the Engineer. Perhaps it took too long, but I finally do. Let me explain it to you guys. Let's think about this, ok? In Team Fortress 2, the Engineer is a fucking joke. He only has a shotgun and a wrench, and dies unbelieveably quickly. To counter this, his sentry gun is very powerful and very strong.

Now look at how Fortress Forever has balanced the Engineer. He is capable of dealing good damage, but can not hold his own. Look at his sentry gun, capable of dealing damage, but not able to hold its own. Hm? So how the fuck do you defend? If you're both so goddamn weak, how? It's impossible. NO IT'S NOT. HERE'S WHY.

Imagine five Engineers. In the current pub setting, they build five guns. They sit behind these guns, and whack them over and over and over. Essentially, only five units are playing defense; the guns. The Engineers are out of play, doing it wrong. Let's imagine five Medics storm the place. These Medics have to deal with 5 points of defense. The guns. A few nades, you're both dead. You're not a threat, because you're busy, and will be indirectly disposed of as they get rid of the sentry guns. No problemo!

Now imagine those five Engineers build five guns, but they don't noob it out behind their guns. Instead, they stand guard with their shotguns and grenades. Do you get it now? Those five medics have to deal with 10 POINTS OF DEFENSE. THE ENGINEERS AND THE GUNS. THE DEFENSE HAS FUCKING DOUBLED. OMFG. YOU SEE NOW? THE TRUTH.

THE MEDICS MUST DECIDE WHO IS A BIGGER THREAT. YOU OR YOUR GUN. IF YOU DIE, YOUR SENTRY FINISHES THEM OFF. IF YOUR SENTRY IS DESTROYED, YOU FINISH THEM OFF. In rare cases, both of you die, but this is again rare if you play correctly. You break the enemy by making him decide on the spot. You sever his expectations. An enemy taking fire from multiple directions and multiple targets is in a worse situation than one taking fire from a single direction and a single target. DON'T YOU GET IT? HOLY FUCK. I HAVE SEEN THE LIGHT.

The sentry gun is not strong because it's not supposed to hold its own. You're not strong because you're not supposed to hold your own. How do you defend then? By WORKING IN HARMONY WITH YOUR SENTRY GUN. You work at 50%, the sentry gun works at 50%. Together, you work at 100%. YOU SUPPORT IT. IT SUPPORTS YOU. NEITHER OF YOU WORK SOLO. YOU ARE BEST FRIENDS. TOGETHER, YOU ARE UNSTOPPABLE. End of story, now you know how to play Engineer, the debate is over.

Conclusion?

THE ENGINEER AND HIS SENTRY GUN?
PERFECTLY BALANCED.

/thread, /debate, /discussion, /confusion, /etc

**squeek.** · 09-04-2009, 06:57 AM

The correct way to play engi is actually far more ambiguous, but sure. The ultimate goal is to both do damage and support your gun. How you choose to do that is up to you (teammates and communication can help tremendously).

Bridget · 09-04-2009, 07:01 AM

A simple "Yes, Bridget, You're correct. I bow before your superior knowledge." would have done, but ok, Squeek.

Raynian · 09-04-2009, 07:52 AM

Nailed that spot on, Bridget.

**Bully** · 09-04-2009, 10:40 AM

I'm amazed that people are still only just realising this

RnZ · 09-04-2009, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bully

I'm amazed that people are still only just realising this

^

GeoKill-----> · 09-06-2009, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bridget

A simple "Yes, Bridget, You're correct. I bow before your superior knowledge." would have done, but ok, Squeek.

+++

Credge · 09-09-2009, 03:57 PM

I never thought the debate existed. It was just a hand full of people that didn't get or like the concept.

BUT YEAH GOOD TO SEE YOU'VE GOT IT NOW BRIDGET GOOD JOB!

rezz0r · 09-10-2009, 11:52 AM

The only problem I have with engis is when they come in masses in some pubs, but that is mostly because I'm not a good attacker.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KubeDawg

haha wow. nice read.

Protip - If someone destroys your SG, build it in another area that is just as or almost as effective.
Have a dispenser in your base somewhere that isn't easily seen by the enemy offense, but still relatively close to your SG, then dismantle your SG in between offensive attacks on your base and change it's location, using your dispenser and any nearby bags to get it up to level 3 again.

If you can do this quickly enough, their grenades that they pretime will be ineffective and will likely end up with them dying.

Thanks! I can really use that! First build dispenser then SG? Or vice versa?

09-04-2009, 06:23 AM	#1
Bridget Banned Join Date: Sep 2008 Class/Position: Soldier Gametype: AVD Affiliations: TALOS Posts Rated Helpful 5 Times	@PubEngys: Learn 2 Play This debate has stormed since the beginning. Is the Engineer balanced? Is the Sentry gun balanced. Do we know the answer? Yes we do. The answer is no, they're not balanced. Is that a problem? No, it's not. In fact, it's supposed to be that way. Orly? Yarly. I finally understand the Engineer. Perhaps it took too long, but I finally do. Let me explain it to you guys. Let's think about this, ok? In Team Fortress 2, the Engineer is a fucking joke. He only has a shotgun and a wrench, and dies unbelieveably quickly. To counter this, his sentry gun is very powerful and very strong. Now look at how Fortress Forever has balanced the Engineer. He is capable of dealing good damage, but can not hold his own. Look at his sentry gun, capable of dealing damage, but not able to hold its own. Hm? So how the fuck do you defend? If you're both so goddamn weak, how? It's impossible. NO IT'S NOT. HERE'S WHY. Imagine five Engineers. In the current pub setting, they build five guns. They sit behind these guns, and whack them over and over and over. Essentially, only five units are playing defense; the guns. The Engineers are out of play, doing it wrong. Let's imagine five Medics storm the place. These Medics have to deal with 5 points of defense. The guns. A few nades, you're both dead. You're not a threat, because you're busy, and will be indirectly disposed of as they get rid of the sentry guns. No problemo! Now imagine those five Engineers build five guns, but they don't noob it out behind their guns. Instead, they stand guard with their shotguns and grenades. Do you get it now? Those five medics have to deal with 10 POINTS OF DEFENSE. THE ENGINEERS AND THE GUNS. THE DEFENSE HAS FUCKING DOUBLED. OMFG. YOU SEE NOW? THE TRUTH. THE MEDICS MUST DECIDE WHO IS A BIGGER THREAT. YOU OR YOUR GUN. IF YOU DIE, YOUR SENTRY FINISHES THEM OFF. IF YOUR SENTRY IS DESTROYED, YOU FINISH THEM OFF. In rare cases, both of you die, but this is again rare if you play correctly. You break the enemy by making him decide on the spot. You sever his expectations. An enemy taking fire from multiple directions and multiple targets is in a worse situation than one taking fire from a single direction and a single target. DON'T YOU GET IT? HOLY FUCK. I HAVE SEEN THE LIGHT. The sentry gun is not strong because it's not supposed to hold its own. You're not strong because you're not supposed to hold your own. How do you defend then? By WORKING IN HARMONY WITH YOUR SENTRY GUN. You work at 50%, the sentry gun works at 50%. Together, you work at 100%. YOU SUPPORT IT. IT SUPPORTS YOU. NEITHER OF YOU WORK SOLO. YOU ARE BEST FRIENDS. TOGETHER, YOU ARE UNSTOPPABLE. End of story, now you know how to play Engineer, the debate is over. Conclusion? THE ENGINEER AND HIS SENTRY GUN? PERFECTLY BALANCED. /thread, /debate, /discussion, /confusion, /etc

09-04-2009, 06:57 AM	#2
squeek. Stuff Do-er Lua Team Wiki Team Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Northern California Class/Position: Rallygun Shooter Gametype: Conc tag (you just wait) Affiliations: Mustache Brigade Posts Rated Helpful 352 Times	The correct way to play engi is actually far more ambiguous, but sure. The ultimate goal is to both do damage and support your gun. How you choose to do that is up to you (teammates and communication can help tremendously). __________________ #FF.Pickup ¤ Fortress-Forever pickups My Non-official Maps Released FF_DM_Squeek - FF_2Mesa3_Classic - FF_Siege_Classic Beta FF_Myth - FF_Redlight_Greenlight Sick of the people on the internet, always moanin'. They just moan. - Karl Pilkington Last edited by squeek.; 09-04-2009 at 06:59 AM.

09-09-2009, 03:57 PM	#8
Credge FF Loremaster Beta Tester Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 4 Times	I never thought the debate existed. It was just a hand full of people that didn't get or like the concept. BUT YEAH GOOD TO SEE YOU'VE GOT IT NOW BRIDGET GOOD JOB! __________________ "The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'" Ronald Reagan

09-04-2009, 07:01 AM	#3
Bridget Banned Join Date: Sep 2008 Class/Position: Soldier Gametype: AVD Affiliations: TALOS Posts Rated Helpful 5 Times	A simple "Yes, Bridget, You're correct. I bow before your superior knowledge." would have done, but ok, Squeek.

09-04-2009, 07:52 AM	#4
Raynian D&A Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Ruining #pickups Class/Position: SPAWN CAMPING OH NO Gametype: Ragequitting Affiliations: [PMS]. [Shiney] Posts Rated Helpful 26 Times	Nailed that spot on, Bridget.

09-04-2009, 10:40 AM	#5
Bully Beta Tester Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Yorkshire, England Class/Position: Spectating Gametype: British Bulldogs Affiliations: ®™ ^ Posts Rated Helpful 67 Times	I'm amazed that people are still only just realising this

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