Merged: Disappointed TF2 and TF2 Impressions

lol

go ff forums, man your entire post can be rewritten with TF2 put in. A tf2 spy can disrupt enemy defences, a tf2 pyro can do exactly what you have written as well, and so on :P

I bet if I checked your steam account you have probably played about 10mins of tf2, (though im sure you will reply here saying you have played for days on end , thats right I cant lose!)

You are right FF can take off, but it is still miles away from that point, unfortunately 99% of people make an instant impression on looks. Which is why right now everyone who has a choice between buying TF2 or downloading FF, is picking tf2. If FF had come out 6 months ago, it would have got many more players getting over the initial skill hump and realising what a great game TFC was.

But it hasn't, and until those patches come into play, in my opinion it will stay where it is now in the player charts. Approximately 50 above tfc ;(

[D_Piddy]

Originally Posted by sacred

I bet if I checked your steam account you have probably played about 10mins of tf2, (though im sure you will reply here saying you have played for days on end , thats right I cant lose!)
(

i've played since the beta was released, about 2 hours of game time in a full pub here and there, experimenting with each class. that was enough to show me. i really lost interest in the first 15 minutes, but i had to keep playing to see if i was missing anything so as to my opinions not being skewed.

i don't know how you can argue it, but ff is a much more fun experience for me atleast than tf2. i would like for it to have been the opposite since i paid money for tf2 and not for ff. but sadly it isn't.

[4est]

Originally Posted by EngeeMan

Are you sad that FF has less than 400 players on now, barely more than TFC which has been out forever or will you feel bad when it falls around 170 in the Insurgency range?

At the rate it is going it could probably make it there by next month.

Oh and TFL, STA, UGC and numerous other leagues are launching FF ladders within the next week or so. yeah... FF sure looks doomed.

[mistermojo]

haha how does it take 2 months to learn bunnyhopping?

[SME]

Originally Posted by Norris

dude I played TF2 before the beta was out and said that the game is different. but it's still a Team Fortress game and pretty much worth the title TF2.

Dude, I couldn't care less what you played, I've played it (and I run a TF2 server) too. It's not TF anymore, they broke it. Do you really think that because you say you played TF2 "before" me that's going to change my opinion? Must be pretty full of yourself.

Let's try my Jaws analogy, since they don't seem to get it.

If you went to the movies to see Jaws7 and they took out the shark and replaced it with a little puffer fish, even if they play the scary shark music when they show the puffer fish and keep the name, it's not going to be Jaws anymore, it's going to be *LESS THAN* Jaws and Jaws fans are going to be disappointed and complian. TF2, kept the name, took out the shark and gave us a puffer fish.

We want the shark back.

[Rutabeggar]

Originally Posted by SME

Dude, I couldn't care less what you played, I've played it (and I run a TF2 server) too. It's not TF anymore, they broke it. Do you really think that because you say you played TF2 "before" me that's going to change my opinion? Must be pretty full of yourself.

Let's try my Jaws analogy, since they don't seem to get it.

If you went to the movies to see Jaws7 and they took out the shark and replaced it with a little puffer fish, even if they play the scary shark music when they show the puffer fish and keep the name, it's not going to be Jaws anymore, it's going to be *LESS THAN* Jaws and Jaws fans are going to be disappointed and complian. TF2, kept the name, took out the shark and gave us a puffer fish.

We want the shark back.

LOL...nice analogy...unfortunately, we won't be getting a shark anytime soon...at least not from Valve, the shark in this instance is FF...quietly waiting in the shallows for a little child to feast upon...

[Private_Joker]

TF2 is DUMB!!!!

Respawn delay?
Cartoon charachters?
No nades?

WHERE IS THERE ROOM FOR FRAGGING!?

Fortress Forever is the true Team Fortress legacy, cheers to the dev team!

The war is never over!

-Joker

[Dr.Uudge]

Originally Posted by Concave

...A pyro who has perfected the ability to create absolute chaos on the enemy team...

Originally Posted by sacred

...a tf2 pyro can do exactly what you[edit by quoter: concave] have written as well, and so on :P...

...in my opinion it will stay where it is now in the player charts. Approximately 50 above tfc ;(

@sacred

eh...regarding the pyro quote. TF2 pyro is broke. Or have you not seen the numerous threads on steam forum "debating" whether or not the pyro is worth even playing right now, with the "How to overcompensate as a pyro," "Pyro for the winners," "pyros are tf2 members too" type threads. TF2 pyros are like that wierd kid who hop in a circle in the same spot while other kids are playing hop-scotch. [No offense intended for kids who hop in a circle in the same spot while other kids are playing hop-scotch.] TF2 pyros are as about as chaotic as a bingo night on monday morning - when you ask, "hey, what happened to bingo" they answer "next time, buddy....next time."

[Skanky Butterpuss]

Originally Posted by Dr.Uudge

TF2 pyros are like that wierd kid who hop in a circle in the same spot while other kids are playing hop-scotch. [No offense intended for kids who hop in a circle in the same spot while other kids are playing hop-scotch.] TF2 pyros are as about as chaotic as a bingo night on monday morning - when you ask, "hey, what happened to bingo" they answer "next time, buddy....next time."

that made my day just a little bit better

[SME]

Originally Posted by Rutabeggar

LOL...nice analogy...unfortunately, we won't be getting a shark anytime soon...at least not from Valve, the shark in this instance is FF...quietly waiting in the shallows for a little child to feast upon...

I know matties people are already talking about how to do it. I like FF (I run a FF server too) but FF != TF2 + grenades + infection. It's not the same, it's a different shark.

ive joined this forum to add to this discussion and to thank the devs for ff

im one of the old guys that played tfc for years and was hopeing for something that was at least simular to tfc ... oh boy was i wrong

no grenades, respawn delay, very short round time, invincable heavys(add dispencer and medic) spys that can constantly lay those electric sg killers without running out and losing their disquise , i could go on but most of you guys have already covered the rest
and were are the flag capture levels ? .... theres one ... get the documents
im glad i didnt buy tf2 .... i was lucky ?? to get a black box key given to me by my housmate when he purchaced a 2900xt

ive not read all the posts in this thread but ive not noticed anybody mentioning the end of round killing spree that the winning team can do , a big pita

i just hope that the modding commuity starts to convert the original maps it might be worth playing ... thank god i discovered ff

Can't say I have read those pyro threads on the steam forums :P I know from playing on servers how much damage a pyro can do when used in the correct manner.

Just like in FF when used in the correct manner

haha how does it take 2 months to learn bunnyhopping?

I am sorry I obviously didn't make myself clear, I was referring to the fact bunny hopping wasn't discovered within "2 months" of the release of TFC. If it existed in quake at this time I don't know, but I do remember the days of rainbow? when it began to break onto the tfc scene. Which was a good bit after the release

[Dr.Uudge]

Originally Posted by sacred

Just like in FF when used in the correct manner

Come, come. Come on now. How can tf2 pyro be played in the correct manner. I'm well aware of the dmg that tf2 pyros can do from reading that one post from that guy who did some testing to find out that the flame is 8 steps long, and decrease if you run forward, more dmg as you get closer to the source of the flame, etc etc. I'm also aware of the dmg a yeti would do to me.

But if that yeti was put on a chain, x distance long, i'd stay at x distance + 1 foot away and i'd always have the advantage over the yeti.

The pyro could have instant kill on his flames. As long as you have classes that can out run the pyro, or put distance between the pyro and the soldier with a rocket, or a demo with pipes or sticky grenades...well, it's like playing tag.

Everyone wants to tag the obese kid because they know he can't tag anyone else. Some of the kids will circle strafe him and use their syringe gun while talking over voice comm telling him he sux because he's slow and his stick is too short to tag others. He'll always be that outcast who tries to be accepted by his peers for being the butt of many jokes Poor Mr. TF2 Pyro Guy.

By your logic the sniper therefore has an infinitely long chain. As he can kill you at any distance within the limitations of a TF map.

So is the sniper the best class?

[Rutabeggar]

Originally Posted by sacred

By your logic the sniper therefore has an infinitely long chain. As he can kill you at any distance within the limitations of a TF map.

So is the sniper the best class?

I don't think he was suggesting anything...he was using an analogy to explain how pyro works in TF2...no need to be overly critical because he is critiquing TF2 in a manner that isn't supportive.

[Dr.Uudge]

Originally Posted by sacred

By your logic the sniper therefore has an infinitely long chain. As he can kill you at any distance within the limitations of a TF map.

So is the sniper the best class?

No one wants to admit it, but there's a reason why cheat users tend to pick sniping weapons or sniping classes. If you look on youtube, about DODS cheats, they generally use an "ironcrossed" garand. They could use the bazooka, or the thompson, or the single-shot bar, or even the sniper, but they won't. There's something attractive about being able to kill a player from across the map who has 100 health and 300 armor in 1 shot to the face, or frag multiple dods players from across the map with all by headshots.

On tf, what prevents the sniper from being overpowered are things like fast moving rockets, concs, spies, HUD cluttering things like pyros flames, the special spy gren, FOV, and things of that sort.

So, it's not that the sniper is the "best class." Only, that there is a great potential to dominate the game over other classes, if it is the case that the sniper is the only infinite distance killer that can fire a non-dodgeable bullet, unlike a rocket or a nail gun. But yes, the sniper can kill you at any distance, within the limitations of tf maps.

[summit]

I'm getting the idea there's this general consensus people don't have to read a thread before they start commenting on it. Sometimes people get lucky and actually sound half-smart, because what they post is roughly on-topic and the people who have been involved in the discussion really can't be bothered in correcting a few minor discrepancies. Then, there are the people who don't read the thread - they get the "gist" of things from a few random posts and decide to reply going on those. Unfortunately posts like this incur criticisms from people who've been in the conversation.

Dr. Uudge: you seem like a smart guy, but I stopped here "No, actually i haven't read anything in this thread.". Then, for the sake of fairness (because I figured you might have a genuine point) I kept reading.

You come up with a pretty good argument, but the problem is you're trying to approach a class with the mindset of someone who's expects to play him differently. Point and case: most people (who happen to praise him, for whatever reason) don't have a problem with him; they find him dominating. Your argument tends to rely around using him, not the ease in which you can get away from him. It's a subtle difference, but it makes some people think (yeah, like me) that you could spend more time with him?

I've played him, and whilst I think the flame distance could be bigger, I'm not approaching him with preconceived notions of what he should and shouldn't be able to do. I guess that could be the difference in why I haven't had any problems in using him - not comparing him to a TFC pyro, I have a better understanding of his limitations (ie: don't put myself in unreasonable situations where I expect him to perform).

But, that doesn't matter. It seems "the masses" (I'm guessing stupid people and little kids ) for the most part, aren't having too many difficulties. I don't see discussing personal experience getting us anywhere though, so I'll just accept you've had different experiences

4est: gee by that logic I could claim a majority of people on this forum are fanboys - because all they do is praise FF, right? Wrong. There's a very big difference in a fanboy and someone who supports something. A fanboy offers no logic or reasoning. I haven't unfairly attacked FF, or even tried promoting TF2 - I've only made comments regarding posts that look ignorant.

Rutabeggar: Hi bud! Thanks for the welcome! If you could please remind me where I've talked about how good Valve have made TF2, that'd be great (I need the refresher because I can't remember that ever being my argument). As if you've noticed me "aptly state" (sorry man but purple prose is a killer), I haven't been trying to get people to change their preference. Next time, read my posts - you'll find they don't attack FF, and they don't promote TF2. If you can't make the distinction between the latter and defending common-sense and posting against stupidity, then I'm sorry there isn't much I can do.

Ultimately this thread seems to wander off topic, if there even was one to begin with. I should just fill sentences with random character combinations because some people don't seem to be comprehending much. Or, if they do, they decide I must have meant something else (perhaps because it's easier to argue). In any case I've had enough of the hypocrisy. FF is great. It's now the community that needs work

[SoBe Green]

Originally Posted by 4est

Oh and TFL, STA, UGC and numerous other leagues are launching FF ladders within the next week or so. yeah... FF sure looks doomed.

Until bug fixes are in place I don't think FF should be considered for league play if anything that would make things worse. Newer players want to get into the clan scene, that is after all what made CS so popular.

[Peon]

Let's examine the title of the game shall we?......

Team - as in team play
Fortress - as in large fortified position
2 - as in.....the second one/version?

Every variation of the original Team Fortress for Quake has at least carried over the "Fortress" part of the title, with the "Team" aspect being implied.....it's not really Fortress without Teams, duh. Most aspects of Fortress gameplay has remained consistent, including.......the fortress. You know, the BIG freaking enemy base that's hard to get into.

It would seem to me, from what I've seen, that for the first time in the "Fortress" series the fortress aspect has been reduced, if not dwarfed. As I pointed out with my title examination, the core concept in the series is, duh, assaulting the enemy fortress. Somehow over the years, Valve has slowly changed Fortress to mean primarily capture/advance, mostly, a flag.

So that's why you're dissapointed with TF2 (whoever is). You went into it expecting MASSIVE COMBAT with 2 teams assaulting massive FORTRESSES.
Not only does it seem that the combat is shrunk (no nades) in TF2, but the fortresses are less imposing also. On the bright side......The Humor Is Way Up! Although, I would say that a flaming corpse in FF getting blasted into the air is a real tear jerker too.

So maybe Valve should rename TF2 to: Comical Team Flag Combat? That pretty much sums it up. I'm still going to buy and play it, but I'll be playing FF at least 80% longer in all aspects.....you can bet on that.

[eat]

Originally Posted by Dr.Uudge

But if that yeti was put on a chain, x distance long, i'd stay at x distance + 1 foot away and i'd always have the advantage over the yeti.

Hold on a second. Are you trying to say you are stronger than a Yeti on a chain?

You betta be the love child of Apollo Creed and a Wookie to make that kinda statement on here.