so, can we talk about the technical reason for no feign death?

[Circuitous]

That'd just make the ragdoll laggy/jumpy if it ever goes out-of-sync on the client. Dead giveaway.

[KubeDawg]

Why not just make it look like a ragdoll, but not actually be a movable ragdoll where the legs/arms go flailing?

Just feign death.

[Tsukasa]

Originally Posted by Circuitous

That'd just make the ragdoll laggy/jumpy if it ever goes out-of-sync on the client. Dead giveaway.

Why?

If you synchronize both bone positions and the current variables used in the ragdoll simulation there should only be one little jumpyness per desync, which should only happen upon firing at the ragdoll or strange lag.

[mervaka]

that "little jumpiness" is your giveaway, right there. clients dont all have exactly the same latency, and everyone's fluctuates. if everyone all had 0ms latency all the time, we would have a smooth game akin to singleplayer.

why cant you see there are limits to networks?

[Tsukasa]

What? It should only be jumpy in the first frame of damage, at which point theres bloodspray as well so its a giveaway.

If your flying through the air after the initial frame when positions and variables are synced it should be an accurate simulation for all clients, with no jumpiness. In addition, lets say you are shot with a shotgun. Since the push is so low the resulting twitchiness would probably not even be noticable, as hl2 ragdolls act strangely to begin with.

The only reason why you would synchronize 2-3 times a second rather then only when the model takes damage or something is if a client has lets say a 1000ms lag, and in that second someone else shoots the corpse. I imagine at this point it would do the hl2 respawn teleport click and it would look normal anyway.

...Right?

[mervaka]

.................................................. .........................................why are you so annoyingly persistant?

are you saying you want this done for all ragdolls, or just spy feigns?

either way, its not happening, for different reasons.

[Suite307]

Originally Posted by Tsukasa

What? It should only be jumpy in the first frame of damage, at which point theres bloodspray as well so its a giveaway.

If your flying through the air after the initial frame when positions and variables are synced it should be an accurate simulation for all clients, with no jumpiness. In addition, lets say you are shot with a shotgun. Since the push is so low the resulting twitchiness would probably not even be noticable, as hl2 ragdolls act strangely to begin with.

The only reason why you would synchronize 2-3 times a second rather then only when the model takes damage or something is if a client has lets say a 1000ms lag, and in that second someone else shoots the corpse. I imagine at this point it would do the hl2 respawn teleport click and it would look normal anyway.

...Right?

They keep telling you they'd have months and months and months of work just to satisfy you and a handful of other players because apparently they can't throw themselves on the ground. It's feasible but it's clunky. It won't be done, because people are content with the cloaking ability.

[Tsukasa]

Originally Posted by mervaka

.................................................. .........................................why are you so annoyingly persistant?

are you saying you want this done for all ragdolls, or just spy feigns?

either way, its not happening, for different reasons.

Im trying to prove a point that doing spy feign death is technically feasible. It may require a little bit of work, sure.

I am so tired of hearing 'oh well, we tried, it wasnt feasible at all so we have cloak' or 'the hl2 engine doesnt work with this' or 'if it could be done itd be in tf2'. I created this thread so that from now we can say, its feasible and it might get done after most of the other important things are taken care of. This whole 'cant' and 'impossible' thing really irritates me.

To get complete consistency you should probably enable this for all ragdolls, then optimize it by not syncing if the corpse is on the ground, until something touches it. You could probably even play around with the client lag code so that you only need to sync every time the ragdoll gets touched/shot at.

[color43]

TFC had feigning because it was easy to do (static death animations, no ragdolls).

FF has cloaking because it's easy to do (shaders).

The two will never meet.

[Jester]

What putting in feign death would do:

-Force all players to use the same client settings for their ragdolls. This would slow down low end machines considerably and probably lose even more players that we can't afford to lose.

-Take away cloaking. Cloaking allows you to not only feign death with a corpse, but sneak away while doing so. Why get rid of one thing for the other? This would also lose players who enjoy cloaking that we can't afford to lose.

-Take even more development time from the dev's who currently are working on more important things.

-Put more stress on networking, even if you do it some sort of "cheap" way.

-Make it even easier to spycheck by checking corpses, again sending spy lovers to TF2 which we can't afford.

/thread

[Circuitous]

It's not happening.

Really.