FF Steamworks/Orange Box/etc. Discussion

[Ihmhi]

It's only an issue when the .dlls change (server.dll client.dll etc.)

Otherwise, not really.

Does this happen with like TF2? Record a demo and six months later it doesn't work?

[reaper18]

Originally Posted by Circuitous

I never thought about that.

Is this an issue in existing Steamworks mods?

SOMEBODY CHECK AAAAH.

you can still download old versions of synergy even tho its up there as far as i know.
It shouldnt make a difference really, as long as the ff site keeps the links up if we get steamworks.

[greenday5494]

Originally Posted by chilledsanity

Hey I have a question. With something like Steamworks, will I basically be screwed for recording demos in the future? Right now if I want to watch something from 1.0 I can at least install that version of the mod and play it back that way. If the mod is updated on the fly, I'm guessing there's no way to keep track of any version consistency and I don't know of any other way of playing it back aside from in-game.

There is a way to do it. A player on the TF2 forums backs up all of his files, his GCFs, his game files, everything in a different directory or optical, and when it updates and breaks the updates, he puts steam in offline mode, puts his stuff back, and he can watch his demos.

[Credge]

Originally Posted by Ihmhi

It's only an issue when the .dlls change (server.dll client.dll etc.)

Otherwise, not really.

Does this happen with like TF2? Record a demo and six months later it doesn't work?

Yes.

Every patch makes most (not all, it's odd) demos obsolete. This makes footage gathering in TF2 a big hassle, especially when they decide to patch when making a video.

What I had to do was record a .dem and then after I was done playing go record the footage using FRAPS. It was a hassle.

[chilledsanity]

Originally Posted by greenday5494

There is a way to do it. A player on the TF2 forums backs up all of his files, his GCFs, his game files, everything in a different directory or optical, and when it updates and breaks the updates, he puts steam in offline mode, puts his stuff back, and he can watch his demos.

Wow, so that's more of an in-theory solution since nobody else would have backups of those files, plus you never know when your client will be updated, so you would have to save a copy of your entire game after every time you recorded it just to make sure. Thanks Valve.

This hasn't been an issue for me since I don't really play TF2, but it would suck for FF even if it would be a convenience for updates. I realize most people don't care about demos, but I love being able to look on old games, especially when amazing or incredibly unlikely things happen.

Originally Posted by Credge

What I had to do was record a .dem and then after I was done playing go record the footage using FRAPS. It was a hassle.

Yeah not to mention just a slight difference in hard drive space.

[OneManArmy]

Replace client.dll and server.dll with versions that match demo?

[Iggy]

Or....... get conversions of the video portion through WeGame, before an update happens.

[greenday5494]

then you cant use the .dem features, such as rewinding, and video editing in the engine, etc.

[Iggy]

Absolutely correct. However, you can actually use a program NOT in the game to edit them.

[KubeDawg]

Or just extract all the TGA files of the entire demo after you record it and save the hassle of having to go through this.

7z the folder you save em to, and store em so you can access them whenever you wish.

[chilledsanity]

OneManArmy: It's still iffy. I mean any time a map is updated, that will probably invalidate your demo as well. There's lot of little variables which right now we can at least track to version changes.

Iggy: Well another advantage to having the demo is you can view sequences from other angles, other than just the 1st person view. You can fly around and see what was happening around the corner, etc.

Kubedawg: That's hardly practical unless you feel like going through demos as soon as you finish the game. Suppose you have a great 20 minute long game. With the TGA method if you save it at 640x480, that's 900k every frame. So if you record at 30 frames per second for 20 minutes that's going to come to 31GB, much more if you record at a higher resolution (81GB at 1024x76. Yeah you can compress it, but it's still going to be a monstrous size, plus do you want to deal with processing all the data for every demo? Especially when you consider that the actual demo is probably closer to 20MB.

[pF]

Doesn't seem like a problem we're capable of fixing i guess (apart from not ever updating the game again) ..

[Credge]

Originally Posted by -pF-

Doesn't seem like a problem we're capable of fixing i guess (apart from not ever updating the game again) ..

The issue only really matters when separate versions of the game can't be accessed. This is not an issue with FF. I currently have 4 versions of FF on my PC. 1.1, 2.0, 2.1, and beta.

[im2cool4uroflolz]

Originally Posted by Credge

I imagine it has more to do with popularity than anything else.

Lies, DIPRIP had one server with one player when I originally DLed, before Steamworks.

[CaLeB-]

Originally Posted by chilledsanity

Kubedawg: That's hardly practical unless you feel like going through demos as soon as you finish the game. Suppose you have a great 20 minute long game. With the TGA method if you save it at 640x480, that's 900k every frame. So if you record at 30 frames per second for 20 minutes that's going to come to 31GB, much more if you record at a higher resolution (81GB at 1024x76. Yeah you can compress it, but it's still going to be a monstrous size, plus do you want to deal with processing all the data for every demo? Especially when you consider that the actual demo is probably closer to 20MB.

I agree. I've been using this technique of "startmovie" to record my frames for a year or two now. Let's just say not only a 20 minute-long game takes a damn while to record frame by frame, but its chomping at your disk space like as if it's Pac-Man. All those frames you've recorded may even slow down your hard drive, if you have any space left on it anyway. Then, it takes more patience to process it all into an AVI with a program like VirtualDub. There's another way to record in source games, though, without the hassle of frames.

1: Change to window mode
2: Load up demo, type in "host_framerate 30" and "startmovie moviename avi"
3: Select Codec
4: Wait, go to end step afterwards.

( http://forums.facepunchstudios.com/s...d.php?t=148196 )

[Credge]

Originally Posted by im2cool4uroflolz

Lies, DIPRIP had one server with one player when I originally DLed, before Steamworks.

Originally Posted by MatiZ

Man, Insurgency is running on EP1 build of engine, so why FF can't be on Steam and running old engine?

[chilledsanity]

-pF-: Right now it's just a minor nuisance since you can still switch to the version you need. With Steamworks it could make it literally impossible (unless downloadable versions of the updates were provided).

Credge: Well hell, let me know if you have any demos that have a lot of action in them. It can be from any version.

Caleb: The problem with the AVI method is that it has a filesize cap. So you can't have an AVI larger than 2GB before it corrupts and 4GB period. You can thank Valve for using a dated AVI format and never updating it.

[pF]

Hmm.. if this happens in TF2 as well.. have concerns been raised with Valve?

Even so, i guess you would have to turn auto-updating through Steam off and hold massive dem-converting parties each time we release a patch :/

[Iggy]

Originally Posted by chilledsanity

Iggy: Well another advantage to having the demo is you can view sequences from other angles, other than just the 1st person view. You can fly around and see what was happening around the corner, etc.

I have only been able to do that with HLTV and SourceTV recorded demos.

[chilledsanity]

I've been able to do it on every FF demo I've recorded. Just playback the demo, press Shift+F2, then press drive. Then hold down the mouse button and you can fly around.