[Poll]Map textures, what's your opinion?

[Crazycarl]

This discussion has got me thinking about how one might go about making "slick textures". First, the reasoning for "gritty" textures: Those little, high contrast details accentuate the higher resolution of the texture. They also look good when you get up close. So there's a huge pressure as an artist to really amp these up, run the sharpen filter a few times, etc. I for one really like using photographic sources for my materials for the character they bring, and they usually come with a lot of cool texture.

What are the alternatives and their downsides?

--Cel/flat coloring: ok, but boring. The pixelated nature of lightmaps really comes through and you are unable to add detail without modelling.
--smooth gradients--these get raped by vtf compression and end up looking nasty.
--blurry textures--same problem as gradients and they just seem low-quality.
--pixelated textures--Look outdated and can be as noisy as high-res textures.

I think the best option is to keep the fine details, but to really lower their contrast. The idea would be to work mainly in shapes of color, but with just enough fine texture to withstand close scrutiny and hide compression artifacts.

Example: Above is a FF texture. Below is the same texture after I've abused it by painting flat colors over it.

[Credge]

Just make textures that are repeatable yet nice looking, similar to some of the new blunka textures. Those are nice, not gritty, and are very repeatable.

Here's a video of a poorly made room (still messing around with cel shading as a whole) with a box and some lighting. I didn't use the blunka textures, but these are my favorite two textures that aren't of the blunka variety. They aren't slick, but they're not gritty. They're a good medium.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2z0ZSVWZqGA (probably not done processing).

Anyway, for an idea of slick looking textures:

http://www.warsow.net/?page=media

They have grit, yet are still very nice and easy to look at. They aren't the highest res, but they get the idea across.

Specifically these:

http://www.warsow.net/media/screenshots/wdm11.jpg

http://www.warsow.net/media/screenshots/wca2.jpg

http://www.warsow.net/media/screenshots/wdm4.jpg

Future-arena is such an unexplored medium in TF and it simply looks great. Q3, UT2K4... these are examples of super-slick textures that don't have excessive amounts of grain. Really, that's the biggest issue with a lot of the textures in FF. They are grainy.

Textures like ff_wall_cement series... all but the 17 and 18's in that series are super grainy.

Originally Posted by Crazycarl

Example: Above is a FF texture. Below is the same texture after I've abused it by painting flat colors over it.

That'd be it. Exactly what I'm talking about. Just nice looking while still having detail. Removal of the grain is a large part of it.

[MatiZ]

FF one rox.

[teh_rape]

ff > aztec/hl2 > tfc > not playing FF at all > classic.

[Player]

I think Crazycarl has the right idea!

[Titan`]

Originally Posted by the_cake

I can't believe people are actually considering keeping the classic style. I always thought of it as a placeholder until someone makes a real version of the map. One of the reasons I like FF is for the graphical improvement. Yet we want to take a step BACK and make things look like Virtua Fighter 1?

[Lateralols]

Originally Posted by Crazycarl

Example: Above is a FF texture. Below is the same texture after I've abused it by painting flat colors over it.

Yeah. Don't do that. The top one looks excellent.

[Crazycarl]

I think the first one looks better on the screen. When you are in Photoshop, you apply sharpen and up the contrast, and it looks good because all your detail really pops out. But in-game, it translates into noise. Not to pick on whoever made this texture (I picked it at random), but I think it's excessive. I tend to aim somewhere between these two when I create textures.

The example here was just a few minutes' work, and I didn't take the time to do it right. Also I don't think it would be as easy on other types of materials. Sometimes the noise is more functional in terms of defining features and it has to be left in.

[GeoKill----->]

Well my favorite are the monkey, palermo, dustbowl style, then the classic styles are sweet to play in, easy to see everything. Then the ff ones, which are used so nicely on cz2 and well. Then hl2 follow by aztec which is basically tfc. I like the Blisters as well.

[BlisTer]

Originally Posted by Crazycarl

imo there are 3 levels of "downgrading". Like you said you can make the base texture more "smooth" i.e. getting rid of most noise/cracks/etc. But then you can also choose if you keep bump and/or specular maps. In blis_2fort i chose for a smooth basetexture but applied bump and specular. See here.

Some ppl found it too techno, but maybe that's because of the white/black/grey/team colourscheme dunno

[Credge]

Originally Posted by Crazycarl

But in-game, it translates into noise.

Pretty much this. It makes the models blend in with the walls (something people complain about a lot) and doesn't allow the models to pop out at you.

Edit: Also, blis_2fort looked fine. It's just the greys and what not made it kind of... I dunno.

[squeek.]

Originally Posted by Credge

Edit: Also, blis_2fort looked fine. It's just the greys and what not made it kind of... I dunno.

Amazing looking? Yes.

[Credge]

Originally Posted by squeek.

Amazing looking? Yes.

I mainly don't like the choice of a dark, dark grey for the floors.

[v3rtigo]

I'm with credge on this one. I'm not voting for classic because that is too bland, but toon textures? Yumm

[pF]

Well i belong to the group of people that like the "new" high res textures. It's still surprising to me how people cannot seem to spot enemy players against any kind of wall texture more complex than gray fill layers. Classic textures make my eyes water.. and i do tend to have problems judging distances on classic maps.

So yeah. Modern ftw (though i could live with a crazycarl compromise.. i have a crush on him you know).

[Credge]

Originally Posted by -pF-

Well i belong to the group of people that like the "new" high res textures. It's still surprising to me how people cannot seem to spot enemy players against any kind of wall texture more complex than gray fill layers. Classic textures make my eyes water.. and i do tend to have problems judging distances on classic maps.

So yeah. Modern ftw (though i could live with a crazycarl compromise.. i have a crush on him you know).

Ahh see, I don't think the problem with the model visibility is a texture issue, I think it's a model issue. The models just don't pop out at you and the blurryness/grainyness (depending on distance) of the textures just make the models blend in with the walls more. If the models had more "POP" like the TFC models do (when using the TFC models, it's very easy to see who is who and what is what) then this wouldn't really be an issue.

The classic textures are bad, and judging distances is a problem on them. I think adding some vertical indicators, like lines, would solve a lot of the problem with judging distances.

The thing about the textures that are currently being used on most official maps are that, while they look good, they look grainy and rough. They don't really match the slick nature of the game. I use this word a lot when talking about textures for some reason =\. Lemme see if I can reword it...

The textures found on most official maps, while they look good, don't match the smooth and fluid nature of the map, movement, and skills.

[pF]

Yeah model visibility.. while again, it's not an issue i myself have to deal with, i do appreciate that nearly everybody else seems to be having problems.

Once we move over to OB, there's the rim lighting from Ep2 that we should be able to put in with little effort.. we'll have to see how that works out as a stopgap. Apart from that there's the ongoing effort to redesign/reshape player models in order to make the classes easier to distinguish.. but yeah, as stated elsewhere, this'll take quite a while yet.. Should these player models be ready at some point, they will be released with new skins too.

[Gator-]

classic and kool aid water pwns all

[GeoKill----->]

and the fishy

[elwood]

if the "koolaid water" wasn't added on top of the already monotonous classic style textures, i think it would help the eyes tremendously.