TF2 Spy gets FF's cloaking. - Page 2

Iggy · 05-16-2009, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by squeek.

I believe TFC copied FF. So did QWTF.

Robin Walker is a notorious time-traveler.

That bitch!!

MonoXideAtWork · 05-16-2009, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wisp

You mean FF's mechanics that nearly all derive from TFC? Which Valve made.

3x burn

spy cloaking

autoreload on all classes

jump pad

railgun charging/ bouncing

I meant what I said.

The fact of the matter, is that Valve has chosen not to file a lawsuit for any of the infringed class names, mechanics that ARE from TFC, map remakes, etc.

No matter how frivolous a lawsuit, it would put intense pressure on the FF team, as they do this as a hobby. Lawyers are required to prove that a lawsuit is frivolous, and lawyers cost money.

<3

Wisp · 05-16-2009, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonoXideAtWork

3x burn

spy cloaking

autoreload on all classes

jump pad

railgun charging/ bouncing

I meant what I said.

The fact of the matter, is that Valve has chosen not to file a lawsuit for any of the infringed class names, mechanics that ARE from TFC, map remakes, etc.

No matter how frivolous a lawsuit, it would put intense pressure on the FF team, as they do this as a hobby. Lawyers are required to prove that a lawsuit is frivolous, and lawyers cost money.

<3

Those aren't even close to original or innovative times. They've been done dozens of times over. Have you ever played a video game before besides Fortress Forever? None of these gameplay mechanics are even in TF2, with the exception of Spy cloaking.

For all you know, Robin Walker and everyone else at Valve think this is a great game. Is that too much to swallow? I suppose the popular thing to do on this forum is demonize Valve. The company that made this game possible.

**Crazycarl** · 05-16-2009, 10:21 PM

Every game designer steals ideas. It's not wrong or dishonest, and nobody cares when it happens. Ideas are free, and actually worth very little in the industry.

Valve likes Source mods because mods make their products worth more. Valve wants to protect the valuable things they own, mainly their games and their trademarks. Look at the bottom of any Valve webpage and you'll see a list of (or a link to) all the trademarks they care about. Why do you think Black Mesa dropped the "Source" from their name?

MonoXideAtWork · 05-16-2009, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wisp

Those aren't even close to original or innovative times. They've been done dozens of times over. Have you ever played a video game before besides Fortress Forever? None of these gameplay mechanics are even in TF2, with the exception of Spy cloaking.

For all you know, Robin Walker and everyone else at Valve think this is a great game. Is that too much to swallow? I suppose the popular thing to do on this forum is demonize Valve. The company that made this game possible.

I feel you have taken my post, and applied to it a demeanor that is not accurate.

Rutabeggar · 05-17-2009, 03:52 AM

Please someone explain to me why Valve would NEED to steal from FF?

Anyone?

Anyone?

They don't. They won't. Move on. Find another reason to hate on Valve and TF2.

Skanky Butterpuss · 05-17-2009, 05:33 AM

ruta, you are being annoyingly irrational. to start, no one here seems to be hating on valve except you (and you also seem to be hating on FF, so why are you even here?). on top of that, valve is very aware of FF, and at least a few valve employees have tried it. to think that they wouldnt discuss its features in relation to how it would or wouldnt work in their game only shows ignorance on your part. the FF devs discuss features from other games in relation to FF all the time. one of the best ways of coming up with ideas is to throw around some existing ideas and improve upon them; its something that is done quite a bit in the gaming industry.

am i saying "OH MY FUCK VALVE STOLE FROM FF THEY ARE THIEVING BASTARDS!" ? no, i am not. but to discount the possibility that they might have gotten the idea from our mod (or from any other game [is there any other game that employs a cloaking system like that?]) because it is a "piss ant mod" that is "gum on the bottom of their shoes" is pretty ridiculous, and is making you look a lot dumber than i hope you are.

ensiform · 05-17-2009, 06:39 AM

Meet the spy was leaked yesterday

(SLIGHTLY NSFW)

http://www.veoh.com/browse/videos/ca...477238BqYGPAZN

Wisp · 05-17-2009, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonoXideAtWork

I feel you have taken my post, and applied to it a demeanor that is not accurate.

You're right.

I was directing a general disgust with the comments about Valve from others at you, which was unfair.

MightyLotu · 05-17-2009, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ensiform

Meet the spy was leaked yesterday

(SLIGHTLY NSFW)

http://www.veoh.com/browse/videos/ca...477238BqYGPAZN

haha that was great

Rutabeggar · 05-17-2009, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skanky Butterpuss

ruta, you are being annoyingly irrational. to start, no one here seems to be hating on valve except you (and you also seem to be hating on FF, so why are you even here?). on top of that, valve is very aware of FF, and at least a few valve employees have tried it. to think that they wouldnt discuss its features in relation to how it would or wouldnt work in their game only shows ignorance on your part. the FF devs discuss features from other games in relation to FF all the time. one of the best ways of coming up with ideas is to throw around some existing ideas and improve upon them; its something that is done quite a bit in the gaming industry.

am i saying "OH MY FUCK VALVE STOLE FROM FF THEY ARE THIEVING BASTARDS!" ? no, i am not. but to discount the possibility that they might have gotten the idea from our mod (or from any other game [is there any other game that employs a cloaking system like that?]) because it is a "piss ant mod" that is "gum on the bottom of their shoes" is pretty ridiculous, and is making you look a lot dumber than i hope you are.

I am hating on neither. FF and TF2 are two separate games. I have been around since FF released, so I know some of the FF devs played some TF2 with the TF2 devs and visa versa. But you cannot assume they would use the cloaking idea solely from FF. While the two are quite similar, TF2 has no need to steal, no not steal let me rephrase that perhaps, "borrow" ideas from FF. If they didn't include this cloaking capability with the new update, this discussion wouldn't be happening. But they did, and because they did we are debating whether they "borrowed" the idea from FF. Cloaking is the simplest solution to inability to feign on this engine. It doesn't mean FF gave them the idea, it just means they found the same solution FF did first. While I will admit it could have been inspiration, like I said before, cloaking like their new update includes was the next step and obvious solution.

Skanky Butterpuss · 05-17-2009, 04:54 PM

so the fact that it functions almost EXACTLY like the FF cloak is a mere coincidence, right?

i might have bought that if FF was still in development and not released (sorta like when the original spy cloak was announced for TF2), but now that FF has been out and garnered some attention of valve devs, the coincidence argument is a bit flimsy.

sure its possible that the idea suddenly came to them in a dream and they had no idea its almost exactly the same as the FF cloak even though theyve played FF, but the odds of that are slimmer than a runway model.

Iggy · 05-17-2009, 05:05 PM

Still.... so what? Even if they DID swipe the idea.... it isn't like the FF devs haven't swiped ideas from other games(I believe someone already mentioned this game being based on QTF and TFC). Ideas like this are not unique... nor will it put FF in a bad light. We are using the same engine they are, the difference is that they own said engine. Mods help Valve sell games, because you have to own at least one for the mods to work in the first place. If some TF2 fanboi needs educating... we'll point him here(to the website) and if he still wants to believe a non-truth, there isn't any amount of convincing in the world that'll change his mind.

Changing the mind of a fanboi is similar to trying to teach a pig to sing... it doesn't work and annoys the pig.

Skanky Butterpuss · 05-17-2009, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iggy

Still.... so what?

exactly. it doesnt matter one way or the other. the only reason im even in this conversation is because i think to completely discount the idea that they got the idea from FF is just silly.

Iggy · 05-17-2009, 07:58 PM

Ok, fair enough.

CHURCHMOUTH · 05-17-2009, 08:53 PM

i think that meet the spy video friggin rapes hard.

why cant FF make some uber mewvies like tf2 does!?!?

Everything · 05-17-2009, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CHURCHMOUTH

i think that meet the spy video friggin rapes hard.

why cant FF make some uber mewvies like tf2 does!?!?

I'd say because the player classes in FF have no character expressions like TF2 does, but it doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad thing.

**Crazycarl** · 05-17-2009, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CHURCHMOUTH

why cant FF make some uber mewvies like tf2 does!?!?

They have:
-animators
-voice actors
-writers
-musicians
-a marketing department
-money

We don't.

chilledsanity · 05-18-2009, 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CHURCHMOUTH

i think that meet the spy video friggin rapes hard.

why cant FF make some uber mewvies like tf2 does!?!?

I could do a lot and have already had some ideas, but I basically would have to have flexes for them to move their mouths (or even the head for classes like medic, pyro, etc.) with the models.

SizeableSSonic · 05-18-2009, 02:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agent Buckshot Moose

Valve could easily shut down Fortress Forever if they wanted. They've done it several times in the past to Fortress mods who use too much of the same names and stuff because of trademark infringement. I think the reason they allow it to exist is because 1: it's on their own engine, and 2: they have TF2 and they know FF would never beat it.

I can't remember any TF mod shut down by Valve...?

05-16-2009, 10:21 PM	#24
Crazycarl D&A Member Wiki Team Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 31 Times	Every game designer steals ideas. It's not wrong or dishonest, and nobody cares when it happens. Ideas are free, and actually worth very little in the industry. Valve likes Source mods because mods make their products worth more. Valve wants to protect the valuable things they own, mainly their games and their trademarks. Look at the bottom of any Valve webpage and you'll see a list of (or a link to) all the trademarks they care about. Why do you think Black Mesa dropped the "Source" from their name? __________________ Support FF:

05-17-2009, 05:33 AM	#27
Skanky Butterpuss Beware the Hammer D&A Member Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Mar 2007 Class/Position: Sabotaging your shit. Affiliations: :}\|, mimic, /KBN/ Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	ruta, you are being annoyingly irrational. to start, no one here seems to be hating on valve except you (and you also seem to be hating on FF, so why are you even here?). on top of that, valve is very aware of FF, and at least a few valve employees have tried it. to think that they wouldnt discuss its features in relation to how it would or wouldnt work in their game only shows ignorance on your part. the FF devs discuss features from other games in relation to FF all the time. one of the best ways of coming up with ideas is to throw around some existing ideas and improve upon them; its something that is done quite a bit in the gaming industry. am i saying "OH MY FUCK VALVE STOLE FROM FF THEY ARE THIEVING BASTARDS!" ? no, i am not. but to discount the possibility that they might have gotten the idea from our mod (or from any other game [is there any other game that employs a cloaking system like that?]) because it is a "piss ant mod" that is "gum on the bottom of their shoes" is pretty ridiculous, and is making you look a lot dumber than i hope you are. __________________ Support FF: Etzell: Skanky Etzell: The Wings are fucking fantastic Etzell: They really are Etzell: But even SAYING that makes me want to vomit

05-17-2009, 06:39 AM	#28
ensiform Time Lord, Doctor Beta Tester Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: The TARDIS Class/Position: Engineer Gametype: CTF Posts Rated Helpful 1 Times	Meet the spy was leaked yesterday (SLIGHTLY NSFW) http://www.veoh.com/browse/videos/ca...477238BqYGPAZN __________________ Open Fortress Developer TrashedGamers.com - Root Access Admin Last edited by ensiform; 05-17-2009 at 06:47 AM.

05-17-2009, 04:54 PM	#32
Skanky Butterpuss Beware the Hammer D&A Member Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Mar 2007 Class/Position: Sabotaging your shit. Affiliations: :}\|, mimic, /KBN/ Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	so the fact that it functions almost EXACTLY like the FF cloak is a mere coincidence, right? i might have bought that if FF was still in development and not released (sorta like when the original spy cloak was announced for TF2), but now that FF has been out and garnered some attention of valve devs, the coincidence argument is a bit flimsy. sure its possible that the idea suddenly came to them in a dream and they had no idea its almost exactly the same as the FF cloak even though theyve played FF, but the odds of that are slimmer than a runway model. __________________ Support FF: Etzell: Skanky Etzell: The Wings are fucking fantastic Etzell: They really are Etzell: But even SAYING that makes me want to vomit

05-17-2009, 08:53 PM	#36
CHURCHMOUTH crystaLcity D&A Member Beta Tester Join Date: May 2009 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Class/Position: Soldier D Gametype: Capture the Flag Affiliations: Goodfellas Posts Rated Helpful 7 Times	i think that meet the spy video friggin rapes hard. why cant FF make some uber mewvies like tf2 does!?!? __________________ 83745 L0LZ ff_nyx_b2 ff_schrape_b3 ff_security_b1 ff_baked_b2 ff_reloaded_b1 ff_mulch_dm_b2 ff_oppose_b1

05-17-2009, 03:52 AM	#26
Rutabeggar D&A Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Please someone explain to me why Valve would NEED to steal from FF? Anyone? Anyone? They don't. They won't. Move on. Find another reason to hate on Valve and TF2.

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