Bots for FF?? my thoughts on FF.

[Everything]

Best post about movement methods in general.

[ensiform]

Just linking to my other post in the OTHER bots thread:

http://forums.fortress-forever.com/s...&postcount=132

Originally Posted by ensiform

It's more the dev-team will need to get in contact with him to see if its even something they want to see at least "finished". His TF2 port is on hold because Valve has not given him any new TF2 development versions of TF2 that can be used with his modified plugin dll that has some new shit for Valve Server Plugin based bots. However that should not stop him from still working on FF ifing thats what the devs really want.

Know this though: He recently got a job at id and is moving to Dallas within like 2 weeks so I'm not sure what's to happen with the overall Omni-Bot project as a whole when that happens.

[zE]

tbh, theres always servers with plp on, day time eu and us, and late night us
People say bla bla ff is dyng etc, i dont think so.. player base is the same, amount of pickups is the same etc etc etc..
When new versions of ff are released u see a boost in players, then it stabilize , but its always the same since 2.0 imo

One thing pisses me off, is the current idea that bhop is what ruins ff .. wtf. Thats what hold this mode combined with concs, grens etc..

[CHURCHMOUTH]

this being directed at the creator of the thread: I am sorry if this sounds rude but to me it sounds like you just flat out don't like FF. You saying things like made by 1337s for 1337s is redic, they made this awesome game based off of awesome games that played almost exactly how ff is played. the game play is how it is for a really good reason. because that is the game. You wanting reduced bhop or removed bhop is crazy talk mang why dont you go play counterstrike? FF is not taking off because the people who really like this style of a game are content with playing the game that they are already playing. if they are lucky enough to hear about ff they see the small player base and figure... fuck it tfc has double the people or more playing it ill just keep playin it too. quakers cant stop playing their quake either.

this being directed at whoever said the elitests are ruining the game: (keep in mind i suck at ff but im guessing the elitests are people who play pickup games and not so much pubs) Pickup games are a simulation of a match. you are placed on a random team where you need to decide as partners who is going to play in what positions and who is going to do what for the next 15 minutes. A match is like fortress forever at its best. It is the game being played to the fullest extent. I cant even word it man but like how could you not enjoy that? I thought the whole point of playing video games was winning what is wrong with you people

[Everything]

Winning? The whole point in playing video games is to win? You forgot it's also relaxing and fun.

[CHURCHMOUTH]

i disagree

[Everything]

I guess you're very competitive, then.

Understandable.

[s0undch4s3r]

Originally Posted by CHURCHMOUTH

this being directed at the creator of the thread: I am sorry if this sounds rude but to me it sounds like you just flat out don't like FF. You saying things like made by 1337s for 1337s is redic, they made this awesome game based off of awesome games that played almost exactly how ff is played. the game play is how it is for a really good reason. because that is the game. You wanting reduced bhop or removed bhop is crazy talk mang why dont you go play counterstrike? FF is not taking off because the people who really like this style of a game are content with playing the game that they are already playing. if they are lucky enough to hear about ff they see the small player base and figure... fuck it tfc has double the people or more playing it ill just keep playin it too. quakers cant stop playing their quake either.

this being directed at whoever said the elitests are ruining the game: (keep in mind i suck at ff but im guessing the elitests are people who play pickup games and not so much pubs) Pickup games are a simulation of a match. you are placed on a random team where you need to decide as partners who is going to play in what positions and who is going to do what for the next 15 minutes. A match is like fortress forever at its best. It is the game being played to the fullest extent. I cant even word it man but like how could you not enjoy that? I thought the whole point of playing video games was winning what is wrong with you people

This has only a grain of relevancy if people are actually playing it.

I'm looking for the root cause of why there isn't a half decent fan base for FF.

FF can grow once it finds it's nitch.

Again, I understand that the developers are working on new things at the moment. ie. Orange Box Port.

[chilledsanity]

Originally Posted by s0undch4s3r

I'm looking for the root cause of why there isn't a half decent fan base for FF.

I don't think you're going to find it. In my opinion there's no one cause. However here are some contributing contributing factors:

-Having to "compete" against TF2 for new players
-Pubbing CTF is not a very fun experience for new players (in my opinion)
-Starting around 2.0 there have been series of changes that broke balance in many areas, enough to make many fans of TF games in general quit
-The mod hasn't had very much publicity
-the slowdown can be overwhelming for people with slower computers coming from TFC
-People coming from other games have different expectations that FF breaks that they may find discouraging (like medics being primarily healers or sentries being durable)
-It's too fast for some people (though I think that's a strength)
-It's too spammy for some people (again, a strength to me)
-Some players don't like having to run so far to the objective.
-Some players find the gameplay too confusing and don't want to take the time to learn it.
-While many maps look fantastic, others that get a lot of playtime tend to be drab looking (mostly just lots of concrete corridors)

I don't think people come into the game and refuse to play because it has bunny hopping. I think many players who leave do so because of the gameplay. To the average newcomer, the game is:

1. Run out into the yard
2. Deathmatch
3. Die / repeat.

I think this right here is most of what prevents FF from getting more players. Combine this with changes that drove off the "old" TF fanbase and that's the reason it's kind of stagnating.

I've tried to introduce friends to FF in the past and almost all complaints fell into one of those categories; specifically the most that came up is that they didn't like playing CTF pubs (which is normally all that's available). I'm not saying CTF pubbing is bad for everyone and of course the majority of people left on FF love it, but I don't think it's helping to keep new players.

Originally Posted by =AS= zE

People say bla bla ff is dyng etc, i dont think so.. player base is the same, amount of pickups is the same etc etc etc..

I think pickups are a poor indicator of how well the mod is doing personally. They require the following:
1. The user scouring the forums to even be aware of their existence.
2. They require the user to have and sign in on IRC at the right times.
3. Unless I'm mistaken, it's only for competitive style CTF, which is only part of FF.

[ensiform]

This is getting way off-topic of bots for FF.

[[AE] 82694]

Ya but it seems to be constructive and not flaming. As soon as the flames start it'll get locked.

[s0undch4s3r]

Originally Posted by [AE] 82694

Ya but it seems to be constructive and not flaming. As soon as the flames start it'll get locked.

No flames here.

About the Bots. Could the latest FoxBot be ported into an FF_Foxbot?

[Paft]

Bots are fine...so long as you can ONLY PLAY OFFLINE with them.

Bots OFFLINE only.

[ensiform]

That's not really a decision for the game developers, but the server making a choice to use bots or not.

[Paft]

Bots don't need to be in servers.

You see, in TFC there is/are (which is correct English?) way too many pointless servers up; too much choice. Imagine if all those servers went, along with the bots, and we the popular servers were just left, then we are way more likely to find an active server instead of so many ghost server populated only with bots 98% of the time. Yes, there are are also botless servers but like I said way too servers are up. Only the popular ones get played on so these become ghost-town servers.

Though, reading my post it seems for TFC server amount rather than bots seems the problem. Whatever... the point is I don't like bots. :P

[s0undch4s3r]

I sorta agree Paft.

The Twisted Network in TFC seems to be a popular server still. It does have bots in it when everybody leaves. Though it's not 32 bots, it's only 6 to 8 bots. Also on that server you can type a command like "#kill bots" or something like that and the bots go away.

If the servers for FF could have something like that with the bots where a player can get rid of them when there are 2 or more users would be a good thing I think. What's your feelings on this?

[Paft]

Wow, my post had so many mistakes.

Is that a vote kick or can anyone just kick? Either way I like that.

[s0undch4s3r]

Originally Posted by Paft

Wow, my post had so many mistakes.

Is that a vote kick or can anyone just kick? Either way I like that.

Anybody can kick. You need a certain amount of players to kick them though. I think it's 10 players will give the OK to kick the bots.

I'm sure a server Admin for FF could make it to where if there are at least 2 players you could kick the bots with a simple command.

That would be awesome.

[ensiform]

As it stands, the current/newest Omnibot code uses an entirely script based set of routines to determine when to be kicking/adding bots. (Note: it's not LUA based, but heavily modified GameMonkey script)

I'll ask if I can post the code sometime and it is possible for server admins to adjust the scripts to their liking. But you'd still need a SM plugin to allow people other than rcon/console to execute a command to force bots to go bye bye.

[mervaka]

i think everyone knows bots will never be a totally viable substitute for human interaction. DrEvil did some cool work back in the day though.