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-   -   UGC league (https://forums.fortress-forever.com/showthread.php?t=20685)

Dr.Satan 09-18-2009 05:03 PM

UGC league
 
Ok,

So I've been getting more and more pm's from clan members and pickup players lately asking me if UGC is gonna come back or not. So first off, lemme say, YES always yes...it's just a matter of getting an active clan base to actually play in the league.

That said, I've been tossing around ideas in my head for how to get a league running with the limited player base, AND still keep it fun for all clans involved. And I've come to the following conclusions:
  1. ideally a ladder is the best format for everyone b/c the clan is up against players of relatively equal skill.
  2. we don't have enough clans (that I'm aware of) to touch a ladder concept :(
  3. the season format is suxorz...it ends up with 1 clan at the top dominating the others and ends in clans quitting b/c it's not fun to get raped 240 - 0 each week by the same people.

So what does that leave us with? Either we do a ladder and hope enough clans build up that it makes it fun OR we throw everyone into a pool, and punish newb clans for joining by pinning them against the top clans. And that is why I have yet to revive UGC...b/c those options suck!

NOW ruta brought up a great idea here(click). I like this idea, it's like a captains pickup only for a season long league! But I have concerns:
  • how many people will join this, go thru the draft, and then quit b/c they didn't end up on the team they wanted to?
  • can people handle breaking up their clans to play in a draft?
  • is it worth it to re-structure UGC to test out this idea?
  • will we have enough people to make a season's worth of teams?

so you tell me...the poll is up, IF I implemented a player draft in UGC, would you play even if it meant getting stuck on a team with some newbs?

Gator- 09-18-2009 05:48 PM

Ew, no.

Rutabeggar 09-18-2009 06:16 PM

For the reasons above...I say you implement it...:lol:


Satan, if this does take off, you have my full permission to structure this in any way that is more workable for a smaller or larger league. Take it and run with it. The important thing is to get people involved and excited about playing.

KubeDawg 09-18-2009 06:28 PM

I love this idea. If I get stuck on a team of newbs, it gives me a chance to teach what I know to players, this increasing their chance of playing FF more often, cause who likes to suck at a game? No one.

And if they're totally awesome and I'm the n00b of the group, it gives me a chance to learn more.

Unless the teams are simply all n00bs then noone will learn.

Maybe have a few appointed people who can prove to be useful in teaching people to play better, and the rest go into a pool?

thiz 09-18-2009 06:34 PM

I'd play :)

Rutabeggar 09-18-2009 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KubeDawg (Post 450648)
I love this idea. If I get stuck on a team of newbs, it gives me a chance to teach what I know to players, this increasing their chance of playing FF more often, cause who likes to suck at a game? No one.

And if they're totally awesome and I'm the n00b of the group, it gives me a chance to learn more.

Unless the teams are simply all n00bs then noone will learn.

Maybe have a few appointed people who can prove to be useful in teaching people to play better, and the rest go into a pool?

That's the idea...have 2 established players who know the in's and out's of running a clan, or at least of playing FF who are the captains. There would be no need to rename clans, or drop clan leadership to create new ones. The leaders of the clans already in UGC can just be the ones who are the GM and Coach if you will. Just the rosters are built around players who are drafted. To really get the community involved...the FF servers should host a series of "Combine Nights" where everyone interested in playing in UGC and want to be drafted can show up and play against everyone else in the pool. The leaders of the clans can watch, scout, and draft accordingly.

The idea of the draft league is to maintain interest of clans and clan leaders throughout the season so that every week is competitive and everyone has a chance every week to be the standout clan/star player. Essentially, it creates parity in the FF competitive scene.

Z4toichi 09-18-2009 08:01 PM

I'm Game

Credge 09-18-2009 08:48 PM

I'm fresh.

Hammock 09-18-2009 09:08 PM

You'll need a foolproof system for the pool and how players are placed onto teams.

Or people will find ways around it, like not entering their names into the initial draft, then !adding when the team he wants to be on is next in line to get a new player.

Rutabeggar 09-18-2009 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hammock (Post 450660)
You'll need a foolproof system for the pool and how players are placed onto teams.

Or people will find ways around it, like not entering their names into the initial draft, then !adding when the team he wants to be on is next in line to get a new player.

Simply make a deadline to enter the draft pool. 3 weeks before the season starts or so, after that the pool is locked and scouting begins, then you have draft day. If they want to be in the free agent pool when the season starts, the only way they can be added to the roster is if a roster spot is available. I think the best way to regulate players is if a player was initially in the draft, but was undrafted, then that is the only way to enter free agency. Then after about half a season, the free agency pool is opened to people outside of the league. If an emergency occurs where a clan is short of players, and there are no players in the free agent pool first, then the other league captains can vote on whether to allow the clan in need to add a player from outside of the league and free agency. I think I'll work on a revised version of the draft league...

Hammock 09-18-2009 10:54 PM

Quote:

Then after about half a season, the free agency pool is opened to people outside of the league
That is exactly what I'm talking about though, people will wait for the most opportune moment to get on the team they want to be on, even if it means waiting half a season.

I can totally see scenarios where, one team has a newbie on it, so they never let him play. Since he's never allowed to play he might just drop out, freeing up a spot on the team for a new player pick. Then they'll say to their friend "Hey man we have a spot opened up, add to the pool and get assigned to our team.

You might say well then we can have rules to enforce everyone plays atleast half a game every night. But how do you enforce that? Some people dissappear for a couple weeks due to RL issues, so obviously he can't play. The only way to prove it is to have someone taking attendance of every match for every night, and to police people playing who are currently present. If you don't have someone taking attendance then it'd just be someone's word over someone else's.

The draft pool system sounds find in theory, but it has many holes, and people will find their loop holes.

You can't even make player drafts completely random either, cause say one team looses a couple players (for whatever reasons), and they need 1 to 2 guys, but in a randomly assigned system a team with 2 extra players could end up with a 3rd extra person, while the team that needs a guy is still a man down.

Rutabeggar 09-18-2009 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hammock (Post 450666)
That is exactly what I'm talking about though, people will wait for the most opportune moment to get on the team they want to be on, even if it means waiting half a season.

I can totally see scenarios where, one team has a newbie on it, so they never let him play. Since he's never allowed to play he might just drop out, freeing up a spot on the team for a new player pick. Then they'll say to their friend "Hey man we have a spot opened up, add to the pool and get assigned to our team.

You might say well then we can have rules to enforce everyone plays atleast half a game every night. But how do you enforce that? Some people dissappear for a couple weeks due to RL issues, so obviously he can't play. The only way to prove it is to have someone taking attendance of every match for every night, and to police people playing who are currently present. If you don't have someone taking attendance then it'd just be someone's word over someone else's.

The draft pool system sounds find in theory, but it has many holes, and people will find their loop holes.

You can't even make player drafts completely random either, cause say one team looses a couple players (for whatever reasons), and they need 1 to 2 guys, but in a randomly assigned system a team with 2 extra players could end up with a 3rd extra person, while the team that needs a guy is still a man down.

I see what you're saying. Obviously there are going to be loop holes and the like...but it's just like the "ringer" loop hole in UGC...you can't really enforce no ringers allowed it if both clans agree and it's not enforced (not even sure if that's a rule...correct me if it is), but you see what I'm saying. Every format for league play has a loop hole. Even leagues in real life have loop holes. If a player in the NFL decides to retire, and come back to a different team, technically he can over and over and over, but it doesn't have a pronounced effect on the overall competitiveness of the league, and I don't think people who really want to play will sit out half or even 3/4 of the season just to play with who they want. There are deficiencies, but they are workable. I'd love to see this format instituted, not because it's my idea, but because it's not the status quo for what the FF community knows, and frankly this community needs a change in what is the norm.

Credge 09-19-2009 02:10 AM

It's easy to bypass the ringer problem. Simply ensure that it's O.K. for a team to use a ringer from both teams. If this isn't O.K. then it's not a problem. Further, the other team has to know who the ringer is going to be.

That's all that would be required to fill the loop hole. If both teams are aware of the ringer and who he is and both teams are willing to play with that ringer, then great. Why would that be a problem?

Rutabeggar 09-19-2009 02:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Credge (Post 450679)
It's easy to bypass the ringer problem. Simply ensure that it's O.K. for a team to use a ringer from both teams. If this isn't O.K. then it's not a problem. Further, the other team has to know who the ringer is going to be.

That's all that would be required to fill the loop hole. If both teams are aware of the ringer and who he is and both teams are willing to play with that ringer, then great. Why would that be a problem?

Because in theory, you could use the same ringer every week...meaning a player would not have to be a part of the draft at all...

Credge 09-19-2009 02:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rutabeggar (Post 450681)
Because in theory, you could use the same ringer every week...meaning a player would not have to be a part of the draft at all...

You could if both teams allow it.

Edit: In other words, if the other team doesn't have enough players to play, the team that does have enough players to play could simply say "No, you can't use a ringer."

Rutabeggar 09-19-2009 02:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Credge (Post 450684)
You could if both teams allow it.

Edit: In other words, if the other team doesn't have enough players to play, the team that does have enough players to play could simply say "No, you can't use a ringer."

That's true. Then it turns in to a flame war...but I suppose that's a different debate.

Ideally if this is a 4v4 league, and you have a roster of say...7, you wouldn't have to use a ringer.

Roster of 7:

Captain
Captain
5 drafted players in 5 rounds

DarkeN_HellspawN 09-19-2009 04:44 AM

If allowed I could take the league...............
 
to the next level of playing by just playing alone. I could get raped 5 vs 1 and 500 - 0 and I would still call the other team a bunch of sorry no playing ass bitches. I say put a Yellow Brotherhood member in charge of it.

Viva La Fucking FF!!!!!!!

dh

Credge 09-19-2009 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rutabeggar (Post 450685)
That's true. Then it turns in to a flame war...but I suppose that's a different debate.

It's nothing new though. Teams that don't have the people to show up generally just forfeit. Nothing really new.

tripleS!X 09-19-2009 09:03 PM

i like the idea but....
 


our clan just revived and was looking forward to playing with them. also have noticed some new tags around who say they are just waiting for a league

so i have mixed feelings on the subject

:e0: stiky

[AE] 82694 09-19-2009 09:34 PM

Just to derail this shit with a related topic.

http://forums.fortress-forever.com/s...ewpost&t=20704


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