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On Impact, make spy disguises useful. Issue Tools
issueid=111 02-06-2009 11:41 AM
On Impact, make spy disguises useful.

Here's what I mean:

1. The flag doesn't cloak when you do
and
2. When disguised, your blue flag instantly gives you away.

In fact, if this was intentional, then why'd you even let players play as the spy on that map?
Issue Details
Issue Type Feature
Project Fortress Forever
Category Classes (Scout/Engineer/etc)
Status Rejected
Priority 5 - Medium
Suggested Version 2.2
Implemented Version (none)
Votes for this feature 1
Votes against this feature 0
Assigned Users (none)
Tags (none)

02-06-2009 02:33 PM
Community Member
 
Well for me, spy the most reliable class in this map for taking down sgs. Aslo sg never tracks you so you nade you right into the cps.
Reply
02-06-2009 02:34 PM
G9-
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoKill----->
Well for me, spy the most reliable class in this map for taking down sgs. [fixed]Also sg never tracks you so you nade you right into the cps.
Approved!
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02-06-2009 02:36 PM
Community Member
 
lol I haven't slept all night :)
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02-06-2009 03:16 PM
[AE] 0112 Ihmhi *SJB
 
It's a conundrum here.

If we hide the flag, that makes Spies the easiest class to cap with. That means we can't make the flag invisible (no cloaking).

But Spies have the flag duct-taped to their back unless they cap.

What about a point at the start area that lets spies get rid of the flag? They can't cap, but they can get in and do some nasty things to SGs and the like.
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02-06-2009 04:26 PM
i'm coming for you
 
yea there needs to be a change with this. maybe make classes like the engineer, the spy, and the sniper not have flags or something? or add the option for any player to drop their flag?
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02-06-2009 05:54 PM
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ihmhi
It's a conundrum here.

If we hide the flag, that makes Spies the easiest class to cap with. That means we can't make the flag invisible (no cloaking).

But Spies have the flag duct-taped to their back unless they cap.

What about a point at the start area that lets spies get rid of the flag? They can't cap, but they can get in and do some nasty things to SGs and the like.
You could make it so that spies couldn't cap when disguised.
Reply
02-06-2009 06:59 PM
el duke.
 
I would rather have the option to toss the flag regardless of what class you are. I know someone on the beta team suggested that it be possible to not only toss the flag so you can disguise successfully as the enemy without the flag, but also have the option to toss the flag and allow the flag to be on the ground for "x" amount of seconds.

Having the flag on the ground for a set amount of time i wouldn't "make or break" ff_impact as far as game play mechanics. The only spot i see anyone tossing the flag would be near the capture room... but since you're already close you might as well keep it yourself and cap it. I could be wrong with this, but i could also see a few plausible routes/situations for extra teamwork with flag tossing capabilities. Situations like coordinating a spy trailing behind another class. Once the person ahead of the spy captures, the spy could toss his flag in the near/or even in the capture zone and then fight off sentries/players while disguised. Maybe not for ff_impact due to it's design, but for the next few ADZ maps in the near future ;)

On another note, i agree that the spy shouldn't be able to cloak completely with the flag. Definitely need to be able to have the option to drop the flag, even if it doesn't remain on the ground for a set amount of time. Just doesn't make sense that you can't drop the flag when you can do it for almost every other current map/gameplay format.

Ehhh i am hesitant to make disallow spies from capturing while disguised. I mean if you have your team colored flag dangling on you back then you should be able to capture while disguised. The enemy should know it's an enemy spy with that visual... Most of the time when i am spy on impact about to capture i have lost my disguise in the room trying to fight people off while inside/protected from sg's. So it probably wouldn't really make a HUGE difference if you couldn't capture while disguised, but more of a annoyance to do so. All you would have to do is swing your knife once/shoot. So it would just be rather annoying to me, personally.
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02-06-2009 06:59 PM
 
Spy is the easiest class to play on impact! I've managed to nade out from the gate to the 2nd part of the map, past all the Defense, capture the flag and then go back to the start, without the flag, which reduces the risk of being discovered in 80%. Then you can stab-sab all you like.

And even if the Defenders shoot you, you still don't have to deal with the probably 3 SGs =D

But yeah, throwing flag ftw
Reply
02-06-2009 07:54 PM
Nade Whore
 
Why not just make an outpost where you can pick up flags if you want? Say right next to the front door?

Also, what if you could take over the first room with a certain number of flag caps, then once that's done, you move on to the second area, and the respawn area is moved into the first room somewhere, with a new flag respawn that's also in that room. You do the same until you get to the last area, which would essentially stay the same, being timed and all, but you get more points for capping on the last area than you would in the initial room.
Reply
02-06-2009 08:24 PM
[AE] 0112 Ihmhi *SJB
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelson340
You could make it so that spies couldn't cap when disguised.
But then you'd have this problem still:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefox11
Spy is the easiest class to play on impact! I've managed to nade out from the gate to the 2nd part of the map, past all the Defense, capture the flag and then go back to the start, without the flag, which reduces the risk of being discovered in 80%. Then you can stab-sab all you like.
As for this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by KubeDawg
Why not just make an outpost where you can pick up flags if you want? Say right next to the front door?

Also, what if you could take over the first room with a certain number of flag caps, then once that's done, you move on to the second area, and the respawn area is moved into the first room somewhere, with a new flag respawn that's also in that room. You do the same until you get to the last area, which would essentially stay the same, being timed and all, but you get more points for capping on the last area than you would in the initial room.
I think this map is meant to be as newbie-proof as possible. If you have to pick up flags that's one extra step that might confuse newer players.

Honestly it seems like the best option would be to let you toss flags. Obviously you couldn't pick them up again.
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02-06-2009 09:29 PM
Community Member
 
Impact is fine with spy. The only change is to remove spy from playing D.
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02-06-2009 10:52 PM
G9-
 
I would go with once you toss the flag you can't pick it back up, the reason for this is for example spy runs flag nearly to the FR then toss it towards cap area, and possibly a teammate has just capped his flag, then runs back out and grabs the spy's flag and run's it in also. IMO that kind of throws the balance off capping. Unless it is possible to allow the person that dropped it to pick it up again only. That is all!
Reply
02-08-2009 03:40 PM
Ray Ray Johnson
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoKill----->
Impact is fine with spy. The only change is to remove spy from playing D.
I was having fun doing that the other day, haha...why remove D spy?
Reply
02-08-2009 07:25 PM
Community Member
 
lol I meant scout
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02-08-2009 10:14 PM
 
I think the spy's flag should change to the color of the other team while disguised.

The funny thing is, I bet that somebody on the team will actually let him through.
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02-08-2009 10:48 PM
Ray Ray Johnson
 
That'd be pretty funny.
Reply
02-09-2009 04:04 PM
Nade Whore
 
Ok, why are there even flags to begin with? Why not make it similar to Green Mushy's maps where when you touch one of the points, it recognizes you, regardless of holding a flag. This way, it would eliminate spy confusion, making him less vulnerable as an offensive class, and everyone won't look retarded by carrying a crapton of flags anymore.
Reply
02-09-2009 04:15 PM
Ray Ray Johnson
 
That's just the way this map is designed, attackers with flags.

Honestly, I think a disguised spy with a flag is great for this map, because the map is so small and linear that it's hard for D to keep O out as it is.

2.3's impact will still have the flags, but D scouts are disabled. We may get rid of the flags if it's necessary, but I don't think it will be.

We'll just have to see how things go to possibly adjust for future patches.
Reply
02-09-2009 11:33 PM
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by KubeDawg
Ok, why are there even flags to begin with? Why not make it similar to Green Mushy's maps where when you touch one of the points, it recognizes you, regardless of holding a flag. This way, it would eliminate spy confusion, making him less vulnerable as an offensive class, and everyone won't look retarded by carrying a crapton of flags anymore.
Because we wanted to make it obvious there is a difference in points between your initial cap-zone entry per life, and standing around in the cap zone.

Without flags as a visual representation of who has and hasn't capped in that particular life, you lose a small part of the defensive strategy.

Probably not a big deal, though.
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