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Re: Implement Changes...(Speed) Issue Tools
issueid=254 01-07-2010 04:21 PM
Re: Implement Changes...(Speed)

http://forums.fortress-forever.com/p...hp?issueid=252

Again, lost my post.

I think the speed is mostly fine. If you wanted to drop it, only do so by about 10% or so - after all, the fast-paced action is this game's hook.

Keep bhopping, too, but make it tougher to have good aircontrol. You can run circles around others whether you're walking or jumping, doesn't make sense to have such freedom of movement. Concs need to be harder to utilize, and have drawbacks too, but I could go into that separately (and probably will). The speed is great, just make it have a niche use.
Issue Details
Issue Type Feature
Project Fortress Forever
Category General Game
Status Rejected
Priority 1 - Highest
Suggested Version 2.4
Implemented Version (none)
Votes for this feature 0
Votes against this feature 2
Assigned Users (none)
Tags (none)

01-07-2010 04:31 PM
Banned
 
I would argue that the 'fast pace' turns a lot of people off, quite the opposite. A lot of new players are so overwhelmed and have no clue how they are dying. It is an 'acquired taste', which is why so many people disappear when they can't keep up.
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01-07-2010 08:23 PM
AKA LittleAndroidMan
 
I think the speed of the game is balanced perfectly. In competitive play, the best scouts and medics can reach their destination if they're good. If the soldier defending the choke point is better, they can stop the offense. Obviously it's more dynamic than that, but I don't see why you'd want to 'slow' FF down. And Bridget, it's clear you're talking from a pub perspective--do you have any suggestions that wouldn't COMPLETELY kill competitive play?
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01-07-2010 09:12 PM
Stuff Do-er
 
TheUnbeholden, bunnyhopping has a cap per class based on their max speed. Currently, that cap is 140% of max speed (for example, scout can get up to ~560 speed, medic can get to ~450, soldier to ~340).

Just thought that needed to be cleared up.
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01-07-2010 09:15 PM
 
Bad bad bad idea. FF is not that manic. Not nearly as much as competitive TRIBES was in its prime. Players who lack the skill to get used to FF in its current speed are probably bad enough at gaming in general that unless FF was completely dumbed down to casual shooter standards ( in all their random crits and autoaim glory ) they would never try to get any good. People who get overwhelmed by speed and immediately quit instead of seeing it as a challenge to overcome will never be satisfied unless their unskilled behind is fully wiped for them.
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01-07-2010 09:33 PM
Banned
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by VentuSag3
Players who lack the skill to get used to FF in its current speed are probably bad enough at gaming in general that unless FF was completely dumbed down to casual shooter standards ( in all their random crits and autoaim glory ) they would never try to get any good. People who get overwhelmed by speed and immediately quit instead of seeing it as a challenge to overcome will never be satisfied unless their unskilled behind is fully wiped for them.
Messages like this get instantly translated in my head to: "I can't come up with anything constructive or offer an argument against something, so I'll just say it's for noobs, we're lowering the standards, and call people names."
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01-07-2010 09:44 PM
Banned
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GenghisTron
I think the speed of the game is balanced perfectly. In competitive play, the best scouts and medics can reach their destination if they're good. If the soldier defending the choke point is better, they can stop the offense. Obviously it's more dynamic than that, but I don't see why you'd want to 'slow' FF down. And Bridget, it's clear you're talking from a pub perspective--do you have any suggestions that wouldn't COMPLETELY kill competitive play?
  1. I never made a suggestive statement, I made an indicative one.
  2. I see 'skill' as being able to kill people, not jump around at high speeds.
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01-07-2010 09:46 PM
Stuff Do-er
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bridget
  1. I see 'skill' as being able to kill people, not jump around at high speeds.
Then you are only seeing half of the skill in FF. The balance of movement skill and dm skill is what makes FF both unique and great.
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01-07-2010 09:49 PM
Banned
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by squeek.
Then you are only seeing half of the skill in FF. The balance of movement skill vs dm skill is what makes FF both unique and great.
I should elaborate that I consider dming people more of a demand for skill than movement skills. I don't want it to seem like I discredit movement skills, I just don't prioritized them over fragging people.
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01-07-2010 09:58 PM
Stuff Do-er
 
I don't really want to turn this into an argument. But, that's absurd. :)

Movement and DM take different skillsets. I wouldn't say one is more skillful than another, but movement is at least on par with DM, skill-demanding wise (try doing conc maps at the level of something like this, or keeping up with glass/caesium/any good scout in a pickup/match).
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01-07-2010 09:58 PM
 
Quote:
Messages like this get instantly translated in my head to: "I can't come up with anything constructive or offer an argument against something, so I'll just say it's for noobs, we're lowering the standards, and call people names."
Cool strawman bro.
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01-07-2010 10:00 PM
Banned
 
You presented no argument for me to strawman, bro.
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01-07-2010 11:19 PM
 
Actually there is an argument there but I worded it in such a way that only people who know the difference between "Takes skill" and "Does not take skill" are able to comprehend. Gaming skill can be anything that is in direct control by the player that is not affected by luck and has a margin for error. This can be almost everything from movement, communication, strategy, aim, etc etc. Anyone who believes "Shooting and killing" is all there is to skill does not know what skill is.

Here is the easy to understand version:

There are two types of gamers. Those who appreciate challenge, and those who do not. Fortress Forever appeals to the first type of gamer in every way. BHopping is intentionally included, advanced skills such as concing and trimping are extensively supported by the community. These advanced techniques affect something known as the "Skill gap" or the difference in skill between new and pro players. Modern shooters are becoming more attractive to the second type by intentionally including auto aim, random crits, random bullet spreads, and other luck factors outside the control of the player in order to decrease the skill gap. The first type of gamer wants a large skill gap, the second prefers a small one.

Anyone who is "overwhelmed" by this games default class speed enough to quit is going to be the second type of gamer. If they can't put up with even the most basic aspect of this game ( which is getting used to the speed before anything else. ) then there is not a snowballs chance in hell they will enjoy the other things this game has to offer. FF game speed is a drop of water in the river compared to say concing in pickups.

The only thing decreasing the skill gap in FF will do is make FF closer to TF2, which is a bad thing. Any gamer who is a member of the second type of gamer has probably already moved on to TF2 and will not see FF as enjoyable unless FF was stripped down to be exactly like it, which would destroy the reason why FF even exists.
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