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Old 10-07-2007, 09:48 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by micron08
Just as an outsider kind of perspective on this discussion, I hop back and forth from TF2 to FF all the time. They both are awesome games that I've been following since early on.
I agree. I was expecting TFC Source engine update for long time and now have two options. As TFC gamer fan I'm more inclined to FF.
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Old 10-07-2007, 09:50 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by Jiggles
People's standards are higher these days. Making even passable character models, animations, maps, etc takes at least 10x more work than before.

Also, the market is practically flooded with good professional multiplayer games (including massive timesinks like WoW). In addition, the console systems are drawing more and more players to spend time and money that the players may have otherwise put into their gaming PCs.

Add to this the players who stick to their old games (CS, for example) because, in part, they got really good at it and don't want to move on to a new game where they mostly start back at "square one".

I also wonder if game companies being more willing to hire mod-makers (and game companies' general need for more talent than before) has contributed somewhat to the difficulties. It's hard to work full-time at a game studio, only to come home and do almost the same thing on your free time.

With this as the setting, it's not surprising that the mod-scene is struggling.

Still, it's not like it's the end of the world or anything for FF. A lot of people tried FF and found it not to their liking (for various reasons). Many of those reasons are clear and fixable -- bugs, lack of polish, balance issues, etc. This is the first release, after all -- no matter how polished we wanted it to be (and how many features we wanted to include on release), we couldn't simply will it to be so.

All that said, if we really want to grow the community, "the power is partly yours" (cue Captain Planet). One simple way is to be less critical/dismissive of new players. "Elitism" is especially dangerous for FF. I know a bunch of us have been playing TFC for years (and maybe even TF before that), but if we want FF to carve out a unique place for itself, we have to avoid applying the years of TFC "baggage". Like booting people for violating "no OvO" rules they don't understand, bitching at players for not being able to find cap points, or complaining that feature X in FF isn't exactly identical to TFC, for example.

In summary, despite the repeated posting of "FF is dead" threads, we will keep working on FF: implementing features that weren't ready for release (such as the training mode, bots, and stats), fixing all the bugs we can, and making significant changes that we feel makes FF better as a game (and not necessarily more like TFC, unless there's a good reason to do so). And we will keep doing so on our spare time, for free, 'cuz I guess we're just suckers like that
You are right, but this is not entirely relevant --
Where is the marketing/promotion part of your development scheme? Why isn't there a donation system, or a person solely dedicated to creating a market for the mod?
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Old 10-07-2007, 10:02 PM   #63
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Well frankly, after reading all the posts made in this thread, it's absolutely no surprise to me that this mod isn't doing well because the majority of you are already admitting the defeat of mod popularity from the outset which basically implies that FF never had a chance in the first place.

Now regardless of what you might think about TF2 vs. FF, we all know that TF2 is nowhere near what TFC was. For people like myself who generally played TFC competitively in STA, TFL, PFL, IGL, whatever leagues you can think of, it is a sad thought to imagine that this game will drop off because there is no official marketing campaign sponsored by the development team. I would be very willing to pledge a good chunk of cash to assist in buying banners, e-mail campaigns, anything else that would help actually spread awareness of the fact that this game exists so that when TF2 is launched, there is at least some KNOWN alternative to the slow gameplay that bears little resemblance to TFC.
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Old 10-07-2007, 10:29 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike.Gayner
TFC players have resisted upgrading for this long for whatever reason, I dont see them upgrading simply to play TFC:S
Did he just say TFC:S?
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Old 10-07-2007, 10:29 PM   #65
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Just a couple things:
1.fix the bugs and alot of people will come back.I know from our server, that was supposed to be hunted 24/7, that people are waiting.We have a pretty big community of hunted players that have waited years for FF to come out.Only to find that thier fav map is buggy and crashes 70% of the people who play it. plus alot of people are having crash issues in general with the game(like myself).So now they are just waiting for the 1st patch to be released and they will try again.

2. If you like this mod, make it a topic of discussion in any gaming forum you can.Word of mouth is an awesome advertising tool!! I know Im working on a couple videos and Kommy from our community has already posted a couple this weekend on youtube. Dont sit back and watch, be proactive and help out. Build that clan scene, make that video, and add your 2 cents about the game when you can where you can. TFC started as a mod made just like this one and got bought by valve.This mod can grow into a gaming monster if given a chance!
Just my 2 cents take it how you like...
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Old 10-07-2007, 10:31 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XBlank
You are right, but this is not entirely relevant --
Where is the marketing/promotion part of your development scheme? Why isn't there a donation system, or a person solely dedicated to creating a market for the mod?
As for marketing, we have had more than one person working on stuff like that (making cool videos and the like), but not much has been finished, unfortunately (and we're not going to release a promo video that isn't great -- not after the response to our previous video...). We will certainly do more in the future to promote FF, however.
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Old 10-07-2007, 10:34 PM   #67
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i am guessing all the ppl saying ff is faster paced than tfc probably could never bhop or not bhop very good atleast in tfc...!?
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Old 10-07-2007, 10:52 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tu!
i am guessing all the ppl saying ff is faster paced than tfc probably could never bhop or not bhop very good atleast in tfc...!?
FF is a lot faster than TFC imo. What's bhop?
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Old 10-07-2007, 10:56 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tu!
i am guessing all the ppl saying ff is faster paced than tfc probably could never bhop or not bhop very good atleast in tfc...!?
No. I'm saying this because:

1. It is easier to BHop... making mistakes almost non-existent resulting in faster, more consistent travel.

2. Concing is the same speed, if not faster. Also, smoother and more streamlined. Much less jerky.

3. It is easier to retain and control conc speed after landing in FF (although the speed diminishes over time, not instantly). On the same token, gaining speed by jumping on ramps is much easier to retain as well. Much like ramp sliding, sharking (kind of buggy), etc.

4. The overall movement speed of all classes seems (I use seems because I'm unsure of the relative scale of the game and the maps in comparison to TFC as I've yet to play 2fort ported over) to be much faster, with or without FOV set to 120.

In regards to appearance of speed:

1. FOV is set to 120 and I get the equivalent feeling of speed that I do when my FOV is set to 120 in TFC in regards to concing.

2. The speed blurs you get from falling, concing, rocket jumping, etc. give a much heightened sense of speed than without.

3. Aardvark.
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Old 10-07-2007, 11:00 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tu!
i am guessing all the ppl saying ff is faster paced than tfc probably could never bhop or not bhop very good atleast in tfc...!?
I think the difference in speeds here lie in the classes you play and/or situations that you get into. Certain situations make you move so fast, you die. Like as a pyro, if you throw a grenade, then try to do a IC-IG combo jump on top of it in ff_aardvark, you'll move so fast, you get gibbed when you hit a wall.

On the other hand, i've noticed the scout/medic air control a bit awkward from conc jump. It feels like it does not like to change directions and the speed tends to slow down towards the cap fairly rapidly, unless its a constant bhop down a ramp, or a slide up a ramp.

But these i think are either tweakable or map-LUA-able. And as time goes on, a standard speed will probably be selected that might try to equalize the speeds of the situations. who knows, perhaps the speed might be increased so that the scout will again come out as WTF-he-just-conc-passed-all-our-engy's-sgs guy.

Yes, i remember the scout feeling like sonic often. But with infinite lives.
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Old 10-07-2007, 11:21 PM   #71
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ff should have either been released a year ago or a couple of months from now
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Old 10-09-2007, 02:51 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by XBlank
It's kind of frustrating that about 2-3 weeks ago, I and a few others make posts regarding the promotion of Fortress Forever being the only way that this game will survive the colossal marketing machine that TF2 already is (just saw a TV ad today) and some people are like "hmm yeah thats true! good idea lets do something". Yet I don't hear a single word from any of the developers who spent long hours making this game about how they actually planned to get people to play it.

Now seriously, I know you guys didn't just make this game for it to die out in a few months, but it's pretty obvious that that's exactly what's going to happen if something isn't done soon to bring more attention to this game. There are less servers every day, and when TF2 gets released, most people who play this game are going to flock right to it because it's going to be so much easier to find a populated and happening server.

I run a 9v9 clan, and we're currently signed up for STA FF, but a few of my guys have already been asking me if/when we're going to move over to TF2 because the clan scene was dead before it even got started. This is not what I wanted to hear, nor what I wanted to do, but if there is no official promotion effort supported and assisted by the developers, there will be no league scene for this game and the hard work done by the development team have been pretty much meaningless.

Please, please find some conduits to make this game known. Advertising will not force people to play, but it will at least raise awareness of the game's existence. Why is there no donation button on the Fortress Forever site? Why are there no banners on popular gaming sites to advertise this game? Let's try and bring a little growth to this game before it fizzles out and classic fortress gameplay is lost forever to the slow and monotonous gameplay of TF2.
Ok, first reason why this is being sabotaged. I have played on about 5/10 of the available servers with a decent ping, and each of them have restrictive rules on gameplay, the most damaging being the 'league-style' rules. This equates no-offense/defense in the middle ground between bases.

Ok, in a mod with about 200+ players at any one time, restrictive rules should not even exist, as it only discourages new players, and pisses off vets like me who just want to play to win.

If I join your league than I will abide by league play. Other than that, if the majority of new and old players are pub players, and there are no league players around anyway, why the league rules?

I really believe these league rules are enforced by medic whores, who don't want to be interrupted in their travels between flag caps. I can tell you right now on the servers I've played on, I can guarantee you the top flag-cappers would have much less if I could soften up or kill them on their way to my base.

I don't want to continue about this too much as I could write an essay about it, and the effects of silly rules on gameplay.

For myself, I will play TF as I always have for years and years - to win with any means available. If you want to ban me for that, then go ahead. I'll just be one less good teamplayer you'll have on your dying server.
 


Old 10-09-2007, 03:43 PM   #73
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I have played both ff and tf2 and to be honest, in my humble opinion from slow to fast paced it goes tfc, tf2 then ff. Folks that like to bhop and conc... ff is deffinatly for you. tf2 is rather crippled with the delayed respawning, so of course this game is much slower paced.

Anyway, with the added features for bhop and conc and such, it seems apparent that FF is totally for leaguers. IF (and that is a big if) there is a problem, it is the marketing. I said it before and I will say it again, you must know your market and then saturate them with it.

Why is the computer so big right now? Cuz mr. gates pinpointed his market and then saturated the product to appeal to said market. Why is the xbox series doing so well.. cuz of the marketing. They knew who they wanted to appeal to, so they saturated their market with the product.

Common guys.. it isnt rocket science. If no one knows who this product is for, who is gonna buy it? Remember the Ford Edsel? Do you know why it failed? Marketing was one of its problems. This car had many issue from the start, with the way they marketed it, it was supposed to be a car for everyone. But not everyone wanted a car that was for everyone. Why would someone who wanted a race car buy something that was also toted as the mom and pop car?

Same thing with FF. YOu simply cannot expect to have it appeal to everyone. KNOW YOUR MARKET AND SELL TO THEM!
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Old 10-09-2007, 04:05 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by Jiggles
As for marketing, we have had more than one person working on stuff like that (making cool videos and the like), but not much has been finished, unfortunately (and we're not going to release a promo video that isn't great -- not after the response to our previous video...). We will certainly do more in the future to promote FF, however.
Someone responded with a bad comment on that video? The bastards! I liked that video!
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Old 10-09-2007, 06:17 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mistermojo
ff should have either been released a year ago or a couple of months from now
Critic.

Do you have any idea how much time and work were dumped into this project?
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Old 10-09-2007, 06:42 PM   #76
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Reminds me of the old "TFC is Dying!!!11111" threads from Wireplay Forums in the early days.
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Old 10-09-2007, 06:47 PM   #77
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We need Rex to save it
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Old 10-09-2007, 06:52 PM   #78
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Lol. Now it would be dead then :P.
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Old 10-09-2007, 07:34 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by Boogieman117
Critic.

Do you have any idea how much time and work were dumped into this project?

yes bro saying how much better ff would have been off being not being released alongside tf2 is being a critic
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Old 10-09-2007, 07:52 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mistermojo
yes bro saying how much better ff would have been off being not being released alongside tf2 is being a critic
FF was still being tested; it's better to have released it with a few quirks and get it out then be buried under TF2's press.
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