Fortress Forever

Go Back   Fortress Forever > Community > General Discussion

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-21-2007, 04:30 PM   #21
Thor-Stryker
Spybox
 
Thor-Stryker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Savannah, GA
Class/Position: Sniper, Defensive
Gametype: Capture Point
Affiliations: Unguilded
Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times
Send a message via AIM to Thor-Stryker Send a message via Yahoo to Thor-Stryker
They created a dull boring game for those that are more dedicated to the original style of TF, but for those of us who prefer a game of balance got more than they bargained for because teamwork in TF2 produces insane results.

FF caters to the hardcore player who wishes to excel by him self, while not bad, it just isn't friendly to what the series needs, new players.

Although TF2 isn't quite balanced yet, the demoman can be near ungodly, as it appears headshots from his nade launcher deal more damage, I've been one shot by a non-critical pipe as a soldier and a pyro.

Sentry Guns still need a bit of tweaking, they really force you to have to have a soldier or demo-man to get past them, which weakens classes like the scout that love to get in and get out. Hell, even the hwguy with invulnerability can't stop an sg due to pushback.
Thor-Stryker is offline  


Old 10-21-2007, 04:39 PM   #22
SoBe Green
SoBe Yourself
 
SoBe Green's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Russellville, AR
Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times
No use in saying "hardcore" before player on the FF. I haven't seen a person here I'd call "hardcore". Maybe a lot of cry babies but no hardcores here sorry. I think they all left. Now me on the other hand.
SoBe Green is offline  


Old 10-21-2007, 04:57 PM   #23
Credge
FF Loremaster
Beta Tester
 
Credge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts Rated Helpful 4 Times
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoBe Green
No use in saying "hardcore" before player on the FF. I haven't seen a person here I'd call "hardcore". Maybe a lot of cry babies but no hardcores here sorry. I think they all left. Now me on the other hand.
Credge is offline  


Old 10-21-2007, 05:08 PM   #24
TwoTired
Lurker
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times
By the way, the scout's double jump gives you less height than FF's Pyro Flame-jump (jump + fire flamer downwards for more upward propulsion and slower fall :P).

Pathetic if you ask me :P.
TwoTired is offline  


Old 10-21-2007, 10:42 PM   #25
Wisp
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thor-Stryker
They created a dull boring game for those that are more dedicated to the original style of TF, but for those of us who prefer a game of balance got more than they bargained for because teamwork in TF2 produces insane results.

FF caters to the hardcore player who wishes to excel by him self, while not bad, it just isn't friendly to what the series needs, new players.

Although TF2 isn't quite balanced yet, the demoman can be near ungodly, as it appears headshots from his nade launcher deal more damage, I've been one shot by a non-critical pipe as a soldier and a pyro.

Sentry Guns still need a bit of tweaking, they really force you to have to have a soldier or demo-man to get past them, which weakens classes like the scout that love to get in and get out. Hell, even the hwguy with invulnerability can't stop an sg due to pushback.
The Demoman's grenade-launcher was nerfed significantly a week or so ago. Good players use the sticky-launcher as an offensive tool, in addition to the nade-launcher. I would call him good, but not in the same way you describe him. It's all situational, sometimes the Soldier is far more effective.

The Scout vs. Sentry thing irks me too. Sometimes I wish the Sentry aimed slower so that the Scout could run past in certain instances. However, you can always switch to Spy, destroy the sentry, and then switch back.
Wisp is offline  


Old 10-21-2007, 10:45 PM   #26
Peon
Altitude Junkie
D&A Member
 
Peon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Class/Position: Agressive Medic or Pyro...as long as I can fly baby!
Gametype: CTF
Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times
Quote:
Originally Posted by EngeeMan
Team Fortress 2 is about attacking/defending points as a 9 radically different classes to suit many different styles of play. The game, from the group up is based on having 2 or more players coordinate and use their individual strengths cover each other's individual weakness.
Wow....this sounds like you're writing a commercial ad for the game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EngeeMan
Pretending you're a pretty ballerina, flipping in the air as dainty as can be isn't really part of that structure. Fortunately there are many games that cater to that sort of gameplay, including the one on this site. Unfortunately for you the amount of players who enjoy this sort of thing seems to have been dropping off dramatically since the original Quake has come and gone.
This sounds like you're bitter because you can't do it. You may have just shown your hand as to why you badmouth those who praise FF. I'd like to see you call a guy in Special Forces a ballerina, and get away with it. How dainty is it when a guys flies in at Mach 5, and shoves a grenade in your mouth huh?

AND....did you forget about the rocket jump the Soldier uses in TF2. HELL, in one of the early TF2 promo vids they showed a whole bunch of Soldiers flying through the air, one after another, to the tune of some old time stage dance music.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SWOGymlWZE
And to think that you repeatedly call me dumb.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoBe Green
TF2 is focused more on team work. It is insanely impossible to capture a point by yourself. In order for a point to be captured quickly 3 or more people have to be at the point. More or less TF2 went away from jumps and air control and focused more on what a group of players can do versus what one guy can do.
In my time playing it, I found that the spawn timer was a huge obstacle to team coordination. It really encouraged people to play defense more. If you stand around and wait for your team to respawn, you will most likely be drawn into a defensive skirmish before long. And even then, I still saw a bunch of loners running around. This does not seem like different Fortress for the good.

It's also funny how this appears to be the most advertised Valve game yet. If you're a Fortress fan it's hard to not love the class profiles, like they're a homage to the game. I always liked the ads, but lately them seem more hollow knowing that there's less behind it now. It would seem only like a sellout by optimizing it for the game console....on the PC the game is absolutely a great value with the OB.

You guys should try a little harder to tweak your analysis next time.....instead of acting like a bunch of Mafia toads.
Peon is offline  


Old 10-21-2007, 11:58 PM   #27
bokko
when ff will out?
D&A Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times
Now I hate to be pointing out the obvious but nobody here really values Sobe's opinion of who is 'hardcore' or not.

I really want to try out tf2 when I get the opportunity, it does seem like a lot of fun. They seem to have designed the game mostly around AvD style maps ad made the classes function very well together. I'm not sure how this translates into CTF, this game type could also seriously suffer from the lack of movement.

Now for a tangent: One thing that kind of pussles me is how people seem to think that TFC didn't have extensive teamwork. I've seen def setups running a heavy, soldier, engineer and a demoman with such solid teamwork displayed it could only have been achieved by thorough practise as a group.
bokko is offline  


Old 10-22-2007, 12:24 AM   #28
Dr.Uudge
in-game as Dr.Ainpipe
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times
Quote:
Originally Posted by bokko
First of all I haven't played TF2 yet so I try to stay away from making too much of a judgement. I've tried some FF but only as much as my laptop has allowed me to.

I only played a bit of TF and a lot of TFC, and what I loved about the game was the depth of movement. Other first person shooters mostly come down to deathmatching with occasional tactical knowledge. TFC, or at least the way I played it (Lighter classes, attacking), required movement skills.

What does TF2 offer in this area? From what I've gathered concs and bunnyhopping are out, are there any new types of movement? Can you change your trajectory midair, rampslide?
Air movement and jump skills are as follows:
FF carried over stuff like trimping and bhop from previous TF mods, like etf and tfc. But they added their own interpretations on it, using the source engine physics, so that even if you have mastered both from previous tf mods, it will still leave a player a little above average compared to someone who has been practicing the trimp concing, bhop down a ramp-->trimp-->concing, grenade jumping, enemy soldier rocket-->concing, etc. I mean, most people don't even know yet, that you can conc as a scout/medic from the floor to the cat walk in the flagroom on ff_well with a primed conc, or that you can trimp on that bridge above the water in the flagroom. Or that you get pushed more forcefully by dropping/being pushed onto the conc, rather than jumping along with the direction of the blast. There's a lot more that player can do depending on the environment, and the player's timing and grenade/conc throw aiming skills.

TF2 is designed with a different philosphy than from previous tf mods. During the playtest, the devs had concluded that forced teamwork would help distinguish the uniqueness of each character and vice versa, that distinguishing the uniquness of each class would encourage teamwork. As such, advanced jumping skills were removed for most classes and are only available for the scout,soldier, or demo, because if everyone was able to have more movement options, teamwork would fall apart, as people would try to go their own way. As for normal jumping, the movement feels like dods. Except that you can't jump while you're crouching. It's kind of a reverse-skill jump because snipers tend to crouch to avoid being seen sometimes, but you gotta remember to stand up first, before you can jump off the ctf_2fort balcony to avoid the incoming rockets.
Dr.Uudge is offline  


Old 10-22-2007, 01:42 AM   #29
greenday5494
Holy shit, thats kerrigan!
D&A Member
 
greenday5494's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Class/Position: D, whatever the team needs, usually engy
Gametype: AvD
Affiliations: None
Posts Rated Helpful 1 Times
sorry, but i think the demo's pipe jump and the solly's rocket jump are useless. they barely push you up (in TF2) and they take a LOAD of health away. Scout's double jump is a joke.

TF2 is fun, no doubt.
greenday5494 is offline  


Old 10-22-2007, 02:50 AM   #30
Mike.Gayner
Guest
 
Posts Rated Helpful 1 Times
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peon
I'd like to see you call a guy in Special Forces a ballerina, and get away with it. How dainty is it when a guys flies in at Mach 5, and shoves a grenade in your mouth huh?
LOL what? I'm pretty sure special forces dont spend much time rocket jumping and bunny hopping. I'm not really sure what you're supposedly getting at here.
 


Old 10-22-2007, 10:35 AM   #31
SoBe Green
SoBe Yourself
 
SoBe Green's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Russellville, AR
Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times
Peon I don't think Engee was bad mouthing FF. It looked like to me that he was just saying less people play games like this now. Kind of hypocritic to jump down his throat claiming he is bad mouthing a game and defending another when you pretty much did just that. He was in fact not bashing either game. And anybody can rocket jump I'm sure he isn't upset because he can't look at the ground and shoot.

And bokko hopefully you knew that was a joke. I assume the smiley means so. Maybe we can be friends.

greenday - You are right. The rocket jump is rarely useful. The pipe jump is really great if you have a medic with you. You can almost beat the scouts to the command points in some maps. Solo pipe jumping isn't useful at all.
SoBe Green is offline  


Old 10-22-2007, 12:02 PM   #32
GhOsT
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times
I've found sticky jumping to be really useful. It's even more useful if you know where all the health packs are scattered around. I've used sticky jumps a lot to capture point C in gravelpit. You can jump from any of the entrances right onto the point as long as there isn't a sentry up someplace.

I've used rocket jumps a fair amount of times while playing soldier. I mainly use it get in the upper area of the middle point of Well. Though I agree, it isn't as powerfull as it was before. It gives you just enough height to get on the 2fort balcony.

Also, there is air control in the game. You can change your direction while in the air. Maybe not to the degree you can in FF, but it is there. Also, people on the Cats have also reported that you can skim off of an explosive jump and if your timing is good you can keep up the speed for a few jumps.
GhOsT is offline  


Old 10-22-2007, 01:05 PM   #33
EngeeMan
Banned
 
EngeeMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times
Quote:
Originally Posted by GhOsT
I've found sticky jumping to be really useful. It's even more useful if you know where all the health packs are scattered around. I've used sticky jumps a lot to capture point C in gravelpit. You can jump from any of the entrances right onto the point as long as there isn't a sentry up someplace.

I've used rocket jumps a fair amount of times while playing soldier. I mainly use it get in the upper area of the middle point of Well. Though I agree, it isn't as powerfull as it was before. It gives you just enough height to get on the 2fort balcony.

Also, there is air control in the game. You can change your direction while in the air. Maybe not to the degree you can in FF, but it is there. Also, people on the Cats have also reported that you can skim off of an explosive jump and if your timing is good you can keep up the speed for a few jumps.
The soldier's rocket jump can reach C on Gravelpit from the upper levels as well. It makes me sad when we're trying to cap/trying to defend the cap and a friendly soldier with full health decides to just slowly mosey on up the ramps instead of just rocketjumping directly up on the point.

On Granary, demoman can toss a sticky right out the side door as they exit spawn at the start of the map and fly across the yard and land right inside the doorway just as the friendly scouts reach the same point. Then they can grab the health pack right next to 2, and do 1 of 4 things. They can sticky jump across (horizontally) the 2->mid yard, or wait to sticky jump up the ramp room to the railing overlooking 3. Or both, or neither. From that point they can toss as many stickies as they can all over 3 before they are spotted by snipers or soldiers that should be arriving soon. Then they can jump onto the shipping crate and nab the health pack. Then their job is just to kill as many enemies as possible before the rest of their team arrives. That's the strategy I use, anyway.

But no, "sticky jumping is worthless and everyone is stuck to the ground moving 5 mph and all TF2 is is walk and shoot. Oh, no I have never played TF2 I am going by youtube videos."

EngeeMan is offline  


Old 10-23-2007, 02:17 AM   #34
Coronius
Alcoholic Artist
 
Coronius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Sweden
Posts Rated Helpful 2 Times
Quote:
Originally Posted by bokko
What does TF2 offer in this area? From what I've gathered concs and bunnyhopping are out, are there any new types of movement? Can you change your trajectory midair, rampslide?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Axp8gcwC40
Coronius is offline  


Old 10-23-2007, 02:33 AM   #35
XBlank
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times
i will admit that at first i was completely unhappy with the lack of bunnyhopping and rapid movement with TF2. however, i quickly began to enjoy it a lot more than i expected and ended up finding myself getting into it. it's really a lot of fun -- you will miss the bhop/pace of TFC/FF but it's still no joke. there is definitely skill involved and it requires an at least comparable level of skill to play.

like i said though, you will miss the speed of TFC/FF. i definitely do :/
XBlank is offline  


Old 10-23-2007, 04:43 AM   #36
whuh?
I don't get it
 
whuh?'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times
Quote:
Originally Posted by greenday5494
Scout's double jump is a joke.
when you double jump, you can instantly change the direction you were moving. This is handy when circle strafing a heavy.
whuh? is offline  


Old 10-23-2007, 07:57 AM   #37
Toffee
Guest
 
Posts Rated Helpful 1 Times
Even though there is no advanced movement techniques to master, TF2 is still great because its something fresh. Theres a lot of new dynamics to the game compared to FF which is essentially TFC on source by comparison. So when you think of it that way, theres a lot more for a player (who has played a lot of fortress games) to learn in TF2 compared to FF.
 


Old 10-23-2007, 12:59 PM   #38
Dr.Uudge
in-game as Dr.Ainpipe
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toffee
..FF which is essentially TFC on source by comparison..
FF is essentially a culmination of various TF mods, with similarities that resemble tfc. Because things like scout radar and trimping were not in tfc, but were included.
Dr.Uudge is offline  


Old 10-23-2007, 06:39 PM   #39
greenday5494
Holy shit, thats kerrigan!
D&A Member
 
greenday5494's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Class/Position: D, whatever the team needs, usually engy
Gametype: AvD
Affiliations: None
Posts Rated Helpful 1 Times
Quote:
Originally Posted by EngeeMan
The soldier's rocket jump can reach C on Gravelpit from the upper levels as well. It makes me sad when we're trying to cap/trying to defend the cap and a friendly soldier with full health decides to just slowly mosey on up the ramps instead of just rocketjumping directly up on the point.

On Granary, demoman can toss a sticky right out the side door as they exit spawn at the start of the map and fly across the yard and land right inside the doorway just as the friendly scouts reach the same point. Then they can grab the health pack right next to 2, and do 1 of 4 things. They can sticky jump across (horizontally) the 2->mid yard, or wait to sticky jump up the ramp room to the railing overlooking 3. Or both, or neither. From that point they can toss as many stickies as they can all over 3 before they are spotted by snipers or soldiers that should be arriving soon. Then they can jump onto the shipping crate and nab the health pack. Then their job is just to kill as many enemies as possible before the rest of their team arrives. That's the strategy I use, anyway.

But no, "sticky jumping is worthless and everyone is stuck to the ground moving 5 mph and all TF2 is is walk and shoot. Oh, no I have never played TF2 I am going by youtube videos."

im talking from my expreience. mabye people are better, but im alot worse at rocketjumping/pipejumping than i am in FF. mabye your just better than me, but i found its usefulness was limited. i have no problem with just walking. i can walk, i dont care, because if i want to jump all over the place, and avoid spam (i love spam ) and still be able to cap the flag, ill boot up FF. when i get sick of that, and want a more team-structured and slower-paced game, ill boot up TF2
greenday5494 is offline  


Old 10-24-2007, 06:25 AM   #40
SoBe Green
SoBe Yourself
 
SoBe Green's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Russellville, AR
Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times
Practice sticky bomb jumping. Best place is cp_well imo. When you can time them just right you can beat scouts and/or kill them as you jump (if they want to bat you away )
SoBe Green is offline  


Closed Thread


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 10:14 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.