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Old 11-09-2008, 08:16 AM   #1
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AI in games have always been poor.

This is particularly true of RTS games. One of two things happens in RTS games with AI.

1. The AI resorts to any form of cheating in order to win.

2. The AI is so piss poor bad that it will lose every single time without you even thinking.

I've yet to find an AI in an RTS that doesn't cheat and is a challenge. The closest are the AI's in WC3, but even those are a pushover. The hard AI in WC3 also cheats (units cost 1 gold and lumber... on normal it has normal unit costs). Why? Why can't a decent AI be released in an RTS?

Mods have made the AI actually good, like this little mod for WC3:

http://www.hornes.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/AMAI/info.html

This guy made the AI in WC3 do may things, all of which make it challenging while not giving either you or the AI an advantage. The AI's found in that use popular strategies that humans use, it will make mistakes, it will adapt its strategy based on what you have built (after it has scouted) or what strategy you are using... and it even learns from you as a player and makes itself better by adapting itself to you.

I guess this entire thing would be an issue if RTS players weren't incredibly repulsive people. I guess it also wouldn't be an issue if I had any interest in playing against brain-dead 13 year olds who use FOTM strategies instead of actually playing the game.

Meh.
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Old 11-09-2008, 04:03 PM   #2
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Don't get me wrong, I like to play WC3 on bnet (mods, never the real game). But about 95% of public players are 12 year old assholes.

Get used to it, or stop playing public games
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Old 11-09-2008, 06:15 PM   #3
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Download ai scripts and hope that they're lesser retarded than the standard ai?
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Old 11-09-2008, 07:35 PM   #4
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The problem with pretty much any AI, is that it's 'player-based', as I like to call it. This means that the AI requires information that normally isn't available to a normal player in order to function.

For instance, the AI reads a few statistics and bases its next course of action based on that, even though a normal player has no way of determining those stats, since they aren't made available to him or her. Think of the amount of units the other player has without even having met the other player.

An AI should imitate a player/human's behavior and become self sufficient, meaning it is much more realistic, much more adaptable to change and therefore many times more intelligent.

Granted, this type of AI is also the hardest and most time/cost consuming, which is why it's hardly ever implemented. Especially in RTS games, where balance is such an important factor, AI usually takes the backseat in terms of priority.
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Old 11-10-2008, 03:24 AM   #5
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L4D's AI is pretty good, i know it's an FPS, but still.
FEAR's AI is still good today
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Old 11-10-2008, 05:06 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mooga
Don't get me wrong, I like to play WC3 on bnet (mods, never the real game). But about 95% of public players are 12 year old assholes.

Get used to it, or stop playing public games
Que?

That's exactly why I don't play RTS's online. FPS players generally seem more mature... some how.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny
Download ai scripts and hope that they're lesser retarded than the standard ai?
Like the one I linked in my post?

Quote:
Originally Posted by v3rtigo
The problem with pretty much any AI, is that it's 'player-based', as I like to call it. This means that the AI requires information that normally isn't available to a normal player in order to function.
Pretty much this. It's a poor system and needs to be revamped from the ground up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by greenday5494
L4D's AI is pretty good, i know it's an FPS, but still.
FEAR's AI is still good today
FPS AI generally revolves around following waypoints and bird flocking stuffs. But oh god... FEAR has such bad AI. So... so bad.
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Old 11-10-2008, 02:09 PM   #7
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I guess this entire thing would be an issue if RTS players weren't incredibly repulsive people.
True that repulsive personalities can be found in all online gaming. They just have to be there...it's like some kind of international law.
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Old 11-10-2008, 06:46 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Credge
FPS AI generally revolves around following waypoints and bird flocking stuffs. But oh god... FEAR has such bad AI. So... so bad.
Hm, I found it quite surprising when the FEAR Soldiers didn't run into the grenade I threw ahead of them, personally. Specially after playing HL/HL2/Episodes, when the Combine Soldiers just continued their way forward even when it was obvious it was a trap...
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Old 11-10-2008, 08:54 PM   #9
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how did FEAR's AI suck? they took cover, leaped thru things, deteced your flashlight, etc.
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Old 11-10-2008, 10:24 PM   #10
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How is that anything but average?

Besides, FEAR was such a weak game that the AI didn't matter. "Hmm... I'm going into a room. What should I do? Oh, I know, slow down time gimmick!"
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Old 11-10-2008, 10:52 PM   #11
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HL2's doesnt even do that
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Old 11-10-2008, 11:32 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Etzell
How is that anything but average?
Then most FPS's out there are below average, since enemies tend to walk into grenades and other obvious traps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Etzell
Besides, FEAR was such a weak game that the AI didn't matter. "Hmm... I'm going into a room. What should I do? Oh, I know, slow down time gimmick!"
Lol yes, slow down makes it easy, but you would struggle a lot without it because those fuckers have good damn accuracy ;D
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Old 11-11-2008, 12:14 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenday5494
how did FEAR's AI suck? they took cover, leaped thru things, deteced your flashlight, etc.
Those are things that they did in the first Thief =\.
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Old 11-11-2008, 12:23 AM   #14
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then tell me why HL2's AI is such a joke
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Old 11-11-2008, 01:10 AM   #15
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Because Valve didn't put much focus into AI, dumbass.
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Old 11-11-2008, 01:12 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenday5494
then tell me why HL2's AI is such a joke
I never said anything about HL2 having good AI. It doesn't.
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Old 11-11-2008, 01:39 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Circuitous
Because Valve didn't put much focus into AI, dumbass.
/L4D
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Old 11-11-2008, 02:02 AM   #18
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Because Valve didn't put much focus into AI in HL2, the fucking game you mentioned, how are you incapable of keeping focus on one subject, you fucking dumbass?

How does your brain work?

"The AI in FEAR is awesome! It does all this smart shit!"

The AI in Thief did the same thing. It's nothing new.

"Then why does HL2's suck?!"

Are you goddamn autistic or something?
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Old 11-11-2008, 02:29 AM   #19
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/L4D
/turtle rock
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Old 11-11-2008, 06:31 AM   #20
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lol fail
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