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Old 02-05-2013, 10:00 AM   #1
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TFC:FF?

How difficult would it be to mod TFC to play more like Fortress Forever?

I mean there are obvious things that wouldn't be able to be done, but like movement, the way concs/grenades work, changing the build time of buildables, removal of teleporters, auto-bhop for all players, shit like that.

Any idea?

Just played my first pickup in TFC in over 10 years. Nostalgia like a motherfucker.
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Old 02-05-2013, 04:46 PM   #2
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Do you mean like a server-side mod similar to NeoTF, or a whole new full-fledged sourcemod?

Either way the answer is: a pointlessly immense waste of time.

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Old 02-05-2013, 05:55 PM   #3
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Either way the answer is: a pointlessly immense waste of time.
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Old 02-05-2013, 07:09 PM   #4
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Either way the answer is: a pointlessly immense waste of time.
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Old 02-05-2013, 09:07 PM   #5
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A server-side mod like Neo-TF.

"Time you enjoy wasting, was not wasted."
- John Lennon
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Old 02-06-2013, 01:02 AM   #6
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Nothing wrong with dedicating time to a project you care about but I don't think you'll find much enthusiasm in the TFC community to play an FF-like server-side mod.

It literally baffles me that people even still play TFC, it's like the fools who continued to play QWTF when TFC came out.
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Old 02-06-2013, 01:41 AM   #7
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Nothing wrong with dedicating time to a project you care about but I don't think you'll find much enthusiasm in the TFC community to play an FF-like server-side mod.

It literally baffles me that people even still play TFC, it's like the fools who continued to play QWTF when TFC came out.
To be fair, quake fortress and half life fortress are two very different beasts.

But an ff tfc mod has to be the stupidest idea I've ever heard of.
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Old 02-06-2013, 02:05 AM   #8
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Well I think part of it is the ability to relate (played TFC for 7 years, why switch to FF?) and the gameplay is somewhat different.

Not as bad as CS, though.

The smallest difference will have people screaming to Kingdom Come about how Valve ruined "the world's greatest game."
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Old 02-09-2013, 08:14 AM   #9
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Well I think part of it is the ability to relate (played TFC for 7 years, why switch to FF?) and the gameplay is somewhat different.

Not as bad as CS, though.

The smallest difference will have people screaming to Kingdom Come about how Valve ruined "the world's greatest game."
7 years? A lot of these dudes have been playing TFC since 1999, 14 years
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Old 02-10-2013, 01:22 AM   #10
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Top SiX Reasons Why People Don't Play FF That Play TFC:

#1 - Doesn't take any skill built in bhop.dll omg
(You can turn it off, and half of the people who say that can't properly bhop in the first place or have used bhop.dll in league environments such as Cheese)

#2- Small Community
(You're still playing a game that has less pickups than FF with the same people playing who flame anyone who doesn't know all of 4 maps that they actually play)

#3- Developers suck
(Don't have a defense for this except for squeek :P)

#4- Pickup players ruin the fun
(TFC was all about the flame wars between clans and egoistical people.. there was dedicated flame wars on KSE for predictions between clans. Most of the newer players we place with better players to try to level out the skill and teach them how to play)

#6- No competitive league
(We have a tournament starting this week and have roughly 9 teams playing..ranging in skill between all players)

#5- Graphics suck
(You can use different levels of graphics and customize the game how you like. It might not be as modern as some games, but the graphics are far from awful when you can barely see the default player models in tfc)

#6- No pubs
(We went from 2 public servers to about 9 within a month.. with more people joining of course there will be more pubs. Just because we don't have bots populating the server doesn't mean there isn't anywhere to play)

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Old 02-10-2013, 10:09 AM   #11
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#3- Developers suck
(Don't have a defense for this except for squeek :P)
You're mean...
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Old 02-10-2013, 08:54 PM   #12
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I spoke to a few TFC players a while back with an honest conversation about FF vs TFC, and the biggest thing is that FF is too fast / chaotic / can't hold a flag / offy chain caps / can't see what's going on. Going from a structured organised defense in TFC to being overwhelmed with offy in FF is a big difference.

I suggested some things to slow FF down a bit, kerb the craziness a little but it was dismissed with the sentiment "fast is fun". I still think there is much more to do to improve readability of the game but it's hard getting anyone to take this stuff seriously. Most people have been playing this game so long it's become hard to understand what it's like for new players trying to take it up. Tweaking rocket radius by 8% here and there seems to take precedence for patching these days.

Also the big lag difference in concs makes it impossible to conc when you first switch from TFC to FF. I thought of implementing a cl_conc_fakelag for a while to mimic the 50ms~ lag on conc timing like TFC, but never got around to it. To be honest I think it's crazy that there's not a "TFC-like" conc setting to enable TFC players to conc with the same timing they have been concing with for 14 years.

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Old 02-10-2013, 09:26 PM   #13
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Quote:
. I still think there is much more to do to improve readability of the game but it's hard getting anyone to take this stuff seriously.
I think the readability of FF is intensely greater than tfc already. Any my opinions pretty fresh too, I've only been playing for a little over a year, and never played tfc prior. It's hard as hell to see what's going on in tfc.


Offense may be a little out of control. But I don't think we need to make it any slower. Just give the D better tools to deal with it. I really don't like the OP mechanic, and I think it should be tweaked or reshaped pretty significantly, but cutting it's cool time probly wasn't really a good idea. I rage about OP less now, but the heavy also just stops about half the amount of shit.


Also seriously concing should not be hard to adjust to. Know that there's obviously a difference, play around with when you jump, and you'll have it in a couple minutes.
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Old 02-10-2013, 10:19 PM   #14
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Aftershock, I think the issue with implementing something like a TFC-style conc would be how to respond to that when you are fighting against a scout or medic. I hear a click noise and that tells me precisely when that conc will go off along with wherever that scout/medic is currently at in their jump. So having 2 different concing techniques would have to look/feel the same to the defense.

I've been wondering lately about what if FF's speed were reduced by something like 10 or 20%, but leaving everything else the same. OR, what if bhopping were removed altogether, but increasing the speed of players to compensate. I think either option would be interesting to test out, even if they end up being completely ridiculous or too much of a difference from what we're used to now.
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Old 02-10-2013, 11:08 PM   #15
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I came into this game having never played TFC. I had some experience with fast-paced, punishing games like Quake and Unreal Tournament, but nothing like FF. With a pickup player really taking me under his wing and guiding me through a lot of trimp and conc maps and mentoring me in pickups when I was just starting out (shoutout to oats!) I had a pretty decent experience.

Thus, I may not be the best example of a "completely fresh" player, but I feel that things like conc grenades and bunnyhopping are what make the game such a joy to play.

I agree with FDA, I find everything in FF much easier to "figure out" than in TFC: FF has kill sounds and a notification in bright green, colored HUDs, conc bars, auras around grenades when they are on the ground and getting ready to blow up, etc.

As for the speed of the game... not so sure how that can be "remedied." At times it feels crazy fast (...too fast?), so potentially reducing the speed by maybe 10% or something would be an interesting concept to play around with. At the same time, however, part of the appeal of FF is just how damn fast it is. I mean really... I can't think of many other games that are this fucking fast.

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Old 02-11-2013, 03:07 AM   #16
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I came into this game having never played TFC. I had some experience with fast-paced, punishing games like Quake and Unreal Tournament, but nothing like FF. With a pickup player really taking me under his wing and guiding me through a lot of trimp and conc maps and mentoring me in pickups when I was just starting out (shoutout to oats!) I had a pretty decent experience.

Thus, I may not be the best example of a "completely fresh" player, but I feel that things like conc grenades and bunnyhopping are what make the game such a joy to play.

I agree with FDA, I find everything in FF much easier to "figure out" than in TFC: FF has kill sounds and a notification in bright green, colored HUDs, conc bars, auras around grenades when they are on the ground and getting ready to blow up, etc.

As for the speed of the game... not so sure how that can be "remedied." At times it feels crazy fast (...too fast?), so potentially reducing the speed by maybe 10% or something would be an interesting concept to play around with. At the same time, however, part of the appeal of FF is just how damn fast it is. I mean really... I can't think of many other games that are this fucking fast.

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It is because people don't understand how to play positions on D unless it is a competitive environment. It is more rewarding to play an good D than a good O.
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Old 02-11-2013, 05:49 AM   #17
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The problem is, at this point, you can't just "reduce the speed of the game by x%" and expect it to feel even remotely the same. Concs, rampsliding, trimping especially would all be messed up beyond belief. Defense would be incredibly powerful, as well, unless offense got some other tweaks.

I've said plenty on this before, and part of it is just that FF is so maneuverable, partly because it was made to be so. You can turn on a dime in midair, most tricks are incredibly easy, you get free bhop that you can instantly take up to the softcap, etc. I personally think it's too fast, but there's no clearcut way to fix it.

and stop nerfing rockets already what the fuck guys, they don't need it and rjump maps are already hard enough as it is
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Old 02-11-2013, 02:46 PM   #18
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and stop nerfing rockets already what the fuck guys, they don't need it and rjump maps are already hard enough as it is
This coming from your local mediocre soldier.

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Old 02-12-2013, 08:20 PM   #19
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I've been wondering lately about what if FF's speed were reduced by something like 10 or 20%, but leaving everything else the same. OR, what if bhopping were removed altogether, but increasing the speed of players to compensate. I think either option would be interesting to test out, even if they end up being completely ridiculous or too much of a difference from what we're used to now.
We're through, you and I.



Most of the complaints I hear is that there are no pub servers up when people download the game and want to try it out.

How do we fix this?
1) Greenlight
2) Bots

What can we actually do anything about? Bots.

The TFC players don't want to come learn a new game that's just as dead as the one they are familiar with.

And new players want to play but literally can't because there are no servers with people in them.
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Old 03-29-2013, 06:31 AM   #20
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What ian.de said is technically correct,
Despite being older than FF, TFC still has a fairly medium-small sized community with servers that are played by players themselves. When I play TFC, there is at least 1 or 2 server with a 20+ player count, mostly the {Evil} Servers and some other servers. And this is surprising by the fact that I'm living in Singapore, which is on the other side of the world.

New players to FF can have troubles finding a server with at least 1 player, trust me, I have experienced this when I first played FF.

Up to now, there is only a time where I am playing with real,actual players. So I suggest getting popular YouTube gamers to play FF with the staff. An example is that a mod on Moddb, called Suicide Survival, released in 2008, got onto the popular mod list when a YouTube star called SeaNanners uploaded a video playing the mod.
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