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Old 06-09-2010, 06:35 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Barsteward View Post
The best bet in many ways - as Rutabeggar has intimated - would be to ban a not insignificant number of people from these forums and come up with a relaunch plan that would be new player friendly.
That's a great idea. Instead of getting rid of elitism (the problem) we can instead just replace the elitists with a different breed of elitist. I can't wait for the great Fortress Forever purges. I got my infraction bunker constructed and my tinfoil hat shaped. I'm ready to go!
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Old 06-09-2010, 07:07 PM   #62
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Someone on that special time of the month...

UKTFCL was full of what you class as elitists - they moved over to FF.

I have no idea how long you have played the HL mods but elitism has been there from the start (and really took off around 2003 / 2004). You will never cure people of it, they also exist in every mod - unfortunately FF has a large percentage when you look at total numbers. There are far more elitists by volume in CSS but as a percentage they are tiny.

At the moment it is ingrained within these forums and as a result the FF playing population will continue to decrease or remain at its tiny size compared to what it could be.

Best way to remove the rot is to cut it out - you will never cure it here.
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Old 06-09-2010, 08:01 PM   #63
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If elitism is inevitable, why did you suggest banning people?
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Old 06-10-2010, 01:04 AM   #64
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Dear lord, and ppl complain that this mod is dead. Go for it dude, never mind the fucking naysayers. Definitely better than doing nothing.
I totally agree!

Any help this mod can get would be great. With proper advertising and word of mouth I see this increasing the player population. Whether it be significantly, or only temporarily, it would be a help, as well as a challenge for current players.

I would suggest teams of 2 or more would be better (also means new people who sign up have to bring a friend/friends), and the different skill brackets would make it appeal to newbies. Plan it out to coincide with 2.5 patch (however start sign ups and advertising before then), and I reckon you have yourself a winner

EDIT: Negativity and excessive sarcasm really degrades the forums/game/community...I wish people would realize this and change their attitude for the better...it's one of the biggest killers of FF...

Last edited by MASH; 06-10-2010 at 01:07 AM. Reason: Eye opener...
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Old 06-10-2010, 03:39 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by Bridget View Post
That's a great idea. Instead of getting rid of elitism (the problem) we can instead just replace the elitists with a different breed of elitist. I can't wait for the great Fortress Forever purges. I got my infraction bunker constructed and my tinfoil hat shaped. I'm ready to go!
You can't get rid if elitism. Ever. It won't happen. There will always be players who consider the level they play the game at the standard, and won't tolerate lesser players treading on their turf. It can never change. TF2, IMHO, has less elitism than usual because A) Large number of pub/casual players in comparison to competitive players, B) While you CAN play classes skillfully, and thus be much more successful than Joe Blow who logs on every Friday night after work, Joe Blow still has an equal chance of being successful against YOU because of the mechanics of the game, C) The learning curve is significantly smaller.

You can, however, provide a road and method to which completely new players to a FF like game can be successful by providing a route for them to be successful. I'm not talking about dumbing the game down. FF_Training is long overdue. This game should never have been released without some sort of basic training. With training 99% complete, the team has an opportunity to scrap the FF name, develop a new direction/goal, and provide a more casual player friendly game.

You can go ahead and pay people to play in tournaments, but that just encourages a distinct separation between the casuals and the elitists. Joe Blow isn't going to be able to make a team full of experienced TFC/FF douches who won't consider lowering their nose to take in Joe Blow to win the same cash they are after.
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Old 06-10-2010, 07:42 AM   #66
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If elitism is inevitable, why did you suggest banning people?
In the same way that you set rules and acceptable behaviours on a server, you set the same principles on this website / forum. If people will not act in accordance with those rules you ban them.

I am all for people excelling at something they are interested in - its a good thing. However, their attitude towards lesser players is frankly disgusting and the kind of thing you would expect in the play ground.
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Old 06-10-2010, 11:05 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barsteward View Post
In the same way that you set rules and acceptable behaviours on a server, you set the same principles on this website / forum. If people will not act in accordance with those rules you ban them.

I am all for people excelling at something they are interested in - its a good thing. However, their attitude towards lesser players is frankly disgusting and the kind of thing you would expect in the play ground.
So ban the good players so the not-as-good players can play in peace?

Shiiiiiiit boyee sounds like a good idea to me.
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Old 06-10-2010, 11:12 AM   #68
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give it a rest -NOW. You're both already going around in petty circles even if you don't know it yet. YOU BOTH KNOW what the other is saying so just agree to see the two sides and accept that each other is on the other side. Not that bloody hard. So please don't start another shit fest out of the one that already exists.

CJ you know that's not what he meant. Stop picking at words!
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Old 06-10-2010, 12:41 PM   #69
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It's redundant pointing out that people should be banned for being disrespectful. I had assumed the person who suggested going on a banning spree was suggesting we hand-pick who was fit and who wasn't fit to be part of the community to make it more appealing to beginners. Seriously. That's a terrible idea because it doesn't get rid of the elite. It creates a new one.
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Old 06-10-2010, 01:21 PM   #70
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Elmo - I'm not trying to create another argument - just trying to add some positive comments. This is the first time I have visited these forums in two years. My intentions are to try and improve things not make things worse. I do not believe my points are petty.

I would not promote arbitary banning of members of the forum. Instead I would introduce a set of rules which would make the forum more friendly. Rules could go along the lines of:

No personal attacks
No swearing
No abusive posts

etc etc

This would have the effect of making new people feel more welcome into what can be a fairly hostile environment.

I believe there are many within these forums, who have the best interest of FF in their hearts, that would appreciate seeing such changes. However this is up to the admins as to whether they would want to see this done. I would not insist that server admins play the game my way or argue with their rules and I would not do so here. That does not however mean I will not provide constructive criticism, no one - including I - is above that.

With being a very small community, the FF one can also be a very tight knit one and change will always be hard to bring about.

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Old 06-10-2010, 01:36 PM   #71
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2.7. Do not incessantly whine or complain about the same things over and over. Yes, you hate feature XYZ. Yes, you have playstyle XYZ. Being relentlessly negative is not welcome.
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2.10. While you're free to be critical, if you are relentlessly negative and have a history of doing nothing but complain/whine/*****, you may be removed.
Doesn't really fit in to the context of this thread but I see a lot of bitches just whining and whining.
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Old 06-10-2010, 01:36 PM   #72
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The forums already have a code of conduct. The only problem with it is how it's enforced. The enforcement of these rules is often inconsistent and selective. I have been banned for stuff admins let others get away with openly. It's not just because they don't have the time to keep up with everything and everyone. They too have broken the rules with no ill consequence. There's a huge double standard on these forums. I don't know how long you've been around, but it will eventually become evident.
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Old 06-10-2010, 01:49 PM   #73
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Just read the Forum Rules and as you say it is interesting to see how they are applied.

As I mentioned in my earlier post, with small groups you will often end up with an amount of favouritism being shown. Its the hardest thing to criticise your friend for their behaviour but if you are not capable of doing so - should you really be an admin?
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Old 06-10-2010, 05:21 PM   #74
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Sorry, I don't mean to attack - certainly not personally. My post was out of line and rash; I mean no disrespect. Blame it on getting sick of shit on this forum as we all apparently have. The thought of moving onto another argument that gets us nowhere causes me to outburst (irrational crap) now and again. Most of the time I don't bother posting at all.

I'm not alone in the development team in feeling increasingly demotivated by so much that goes on in the public and private parts of the forum. We try to look past it all in love for the game but yeah it gets hard.
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Old 06-10-2010, 06:22 PM   #75
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Dont worry about it - there is no way I would have put up with the things going on in this board for as long as you have.

What FF needs is a new start - one that really embraces what any TF game should be about.
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Old 06-10-2010, 07:18 PM   #76
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Old 06-10-2010, 10:37 PM   #77
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the idea that a select few dickheads ruined this game for everyone by scaring people away is just an excuse. there are a couple people in the community (no names mentioned) who i have heard give people a hard time in a pickup game and for the most part someone will say something in the new players defense. I dont think its fair to blame this games not so high player turnout on competitive players.
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Old 06-11-2010, 12:04 AM   #78
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the idea that a select few dickheads ruined this game for everyone by scaring people away is just an excuse. there are a couple people in the community (no names mentioned) who i have heard give people a hard time in a pickup game and for the most part someone will say something in the new players defense. I dont think its fair to blame this games not so high player turnout on competitive players.
For the most part, this is untrue. In the 4 or 5 months I played pickups, newcomers were constantly flamed (I was a target a couple times) and no one really stood up for them. I stood up for them after I was no longer a 'noob', but I never saw anyone actively defending new players.
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Old 06-11-2010, 12:27 AM   #79
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Seems different to any EU pickups n such I've ever seen with new guys. Almost everyone tries to help them out. Kinda wish I was there to see it myself
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Old 06-11-2010, 02:15 AM   #80
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genghis tron im pretty sure ive only seen you play in maybe 2 pickup games :P but who were the people bad mouthing you if it happened so frequently?
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