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Old 09-26-2009, 10:15 PM   #1
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ff.pickup community idea

I would like to bring USA and EURO pickup communities closer together.

I think this would benefit the growth of both communities. There would be more pickups throughout the day. In my opinion having more pickups attracts more players on both sides of the ocean.

Latency for most of europe on american servers and vice versa is around 120 or lower. I accept that having a higher ping makes it harder to play. So that needs to be taken into account when teams are formed by the bots. Might be fun to try some new things like play engy, more medic/spy. I've seen hwguy do crazy things with high ping.

I do not think merging the channels is a feasible option at the moment but I don't think it's necessary either.

I'd like to base pickup server location on a timeline (not admin):
Don't dismiss this before you actually read it...

"normal" game time: 20:00~00:00

USA = -8 ~ -5 GMT
EURO = -1 ~ 2 GMT
For europe this would mean in GMT: 19:00~02:00
For USA this would mean in GMT: 01:00~8:00
nomanstime: 1:00~2:00 | 8:00~19:00

When a pickup is started in the for that continent "normal" game time then a server based in that region should be picked.

When a pickup is started in nomanstime the number of players per region decides location of pickup.

The people on quakenet can talk to the people on gamesurge by starting their line with:
EURO:
USA:

For all this to work we need to bring things closer together on both pickup channels. In addition to normal pickup rules I propose the following:

1. Nominate system is to be used on both sides.

2. Abuse of any kind is not allowed. If you have a problem with someone deal with it in prvmsg and not in pickup channel or server. Especially abuse/insults on voice of new/old players will not be tolerated.

3. When you add to the pickup and the pickup fills you are expected to join within 5 minutes. If you fail to do so repeatedly you will be banned for a few days.

4. Obvious unfair teams need to be sorted by means of captains, The final say rests with the pickup starter. However if a player considers the admin unfit to make this assessment you can report him to the head admin after the game.

5. If you feel you are treated unfairly you can either speak to the admin of that specific pickup or to the head admin of your continent.

6. If you feel that the admin of the other region should not be admin at all for whatever reason you can take it up with one of the head-admins.

7. Reasonable and accessible leadership of admins & players is needed on both sides. rcon passwords need to be shared. Euro admins will need american rcons and vice versa. Admins need to be trustworthy and respectable so that both sides will be comfortable in sharing these rcon passwords. This is very important obviously.

In practice this wouldn't change much because normal game time of both continents hardly cross eachother (1 hour in the night for euro and 1 hour in the early evening for usa)

Last edited by yfni; 09-26-2009 at 10:33 PM.
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Old 09-26-2009, 10:16 PM   #2
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great idea yfni! I'd love to kick ricey's jewass more often.
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Old 09-26-2009, 10:38 PM   #3
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It's the type of thing that won't work unless people really give it a damn good go, it makes sense though.

Very much two separate communities right now and it would increase pickups and even encourage 8v8's more probably.
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Old 09-26-2009, 10:39 PM   #4
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Agree

I like this idea very much

cheers
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Old 09-26-2009, 10:44 PM   #5
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I like the idea. Always played in euro pickups because it adds more chances and lets me be more flexible about when I want to play. It sucks playing with a 150 ping though
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Old 09-26-2009, 10:49 PM   #6
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love the idea, i wish we could somehow do leagues like this as well?? i think we need to work on that too... i support it, but i hope the euros are aware that alot of the americans are prettyyy lame
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Old 09-26-2009, 10:49 PM   #7
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Hardy can make it work technically btw. After abba he might be the next best thing from sweden.

Last edited by yfni; 09-26-2009 at 10:49 PM.
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Old 09-26-2009, 10:58 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biohaZ View Post
love the idea, i wish we could somehow do leagues like this as well?? i think we need to work on that too... i support it, but i hope the euros are aware that alot of the americans are prettyyy lame
There are some equally lame euros, not naming any names.
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Old 09-26-2009, 11:12 PM   #9
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There are some equally lame euros, not naming any names.
lamers everywhere. We just need a good and efficient way to deal with them or sort them out.
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Old 09-26-2009, 11:46 PM   #10
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I don't really understand what this would do. US players that want to play euro pickups already do. The ones that don't currently do that by choice (can't speak for euro players, but I'd assume there is some of the same thing going on).

I understand that the pickup community is split between EU/US. But, there is no reason that the communities are split other than US players not joining/playing in the EU channel and EU players not joining/playing in the US channel. Forcing togetherness will not change the fact that the majority of the split, in my mind, is by choice rather than anything we can fix through a unified meeting place.

Also, west coasters like myself ping 180+ to euro servers, which is pretty debilitating.

I don't know. I'm not against it, I just don't think it'll have the impact you are excepting. People can already play in whatever channel they choose. If they are not choosing to do so now (it's not hard to connect to two IRC servers), what makes you think they'd do so if it were slightly more convenient (and also slightly more restrictive if I'm understanding correctly)?
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Old 09-26-2009, 11:56 PM   #11
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Id like to see an eastcoast server being "neutral grounds". If the americans got one up and running eastcoast, we could all play there and enjoy ourselves; that way no one has to suffer the 150+ ping. Except the turks...
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Old 09-27-2009, 12:06 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by squeek. View Post
I don't really understand what this would do. US players that want to play euro pickups already do. The ones that don't currently do that by choice (can't speak for euro players, but I'd assume there is some of the same thing going on).

I understand that the pickup community is split between EU/US. But, there is no reason that the communities are split other than US players not joining/playing in the EU channel and EU players not joining/playing in the US channel. Forcing togetherness will not change the fact that the majority of the split, in my mind, is by choice rather than anything we can fix through a unified meeting place.

Also, west coasters like myself ping 180+ to euro servers, which is pretty debilitating.

I don't know. I'm not against it, I just don't think it'll have the impact you are excepting. People can already play in whatever channel they choose. If they are not choosing to do so now (it's not hard to connect to two IRC servers), what makes you think they'd do so if it were slightly more convenient (and also slightly more restrictive if I'm understanding correctly)?
It's very tempting to add to a pickup that's already started. So as a result it will fill faster. And yes it's more convenient, some cannot be bothered or do not know they can connect to two networks at the same time. Some people do not know their ping is very acceptable on the other side. Most Americans are actually quite nice. Same goes for the Euros. And always playing with or against the same people gets old. Barrier to join a pickup is lowered.

If you mean with Restrictive the following, then yes. Things spiral out of control quickly. People are very brave behind their PCs.
I don't propose some sort of nazi-admin regime. I just want to avoid conflict as much as possible. So you can say whatever swear words you like. Just don't direct them at others...if you have a problem allow the admins to deal with it or swear at each other in private. Basic idea is when you have a disagreement with someone and you cannot reach common ground just agree to disagree as opposed to calling someone stupid. Because that where it starts . So arguments are fine just don't make it personal. Rage quitting and all that crap will not be tolerated neither will doing anything that intentionally ruins the pickup. But this is all covered in pickup rules. Just expect them to enforced.

playing with 180 ping is indeed probably quite painful but how does this affect you if you look at the timezone thingy. Also take into account the added benefit of having more euros play in your pickups.
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Old 09-27-2009, 12:47 AM   #13
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some people seem to be confused about the timezone system.

example: For someone from great Britain this would mean that if you add between 19:00~1:00 your local time. You are guaranteed a euro server. With the added benefit of having americans playing if they are around to add. So pickup is more likely to start/filled.

Same basic principle for americans during their primetime

Last edited by yfni; 09-27-2009 at 12:47 AM.
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Old 09-27-2009, 01:11 AM   #14
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wouldnt it be good to have the option of a srvr with decent ping for everyone.
Say that 4 westcoast americans have added to the "euro" pickup. Then it sounds fair to play on an eastcoast srvr instead of a eurosrvr, no?

however if its 4 eastcoast americans or if they are in minority, the euroes would then decide if they have goodwill or not

And vice versa of course
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Old 09-27-2009, 01:39 AM   #15
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The strength of my plan is that people know what to expect (what server) before they add.

Unless they add outside their prime-time but in nomanstime

Last edited by yfni; 09-27-2009 at 01:39 AM.
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Old 09-27-2009, 02:51 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squeek. View Post
I don't really understand what this would do. US players that want to play euro pickups already do. The ones that don't currently do that by choice (can't speak for euro players, but I'd assume there is some of the same thing going on).

I understand that the pickup community is split between EU/US. But, there is no reason that the communities are split other than US players not joining/playing in the EU channel and EU players not joining/playing in the US channel. Forcing togetherness will not change the fact that the majority of the split, in my mind, is by choice rather than anything we can fix through a unified meeting place.
I think its the first time I ever agree with this guy.
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Old 09-27-2009, 10:48 AM   #17
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I think its the first time I ever agree with this guy.
there is no unified meeting place except on the actual game server.

I think you of all people should appreciate the challenge of playing against/with players better or as good yourself. Because there aren't that many on either continent.

And like I said nothing really changes if you're playing prime-time except that you'll have some euros playing more often in your pickups.

We have rodox playing for euro very regularly and he's considered to be one of the better players even with his slight ping disadvantage.

But if it's my proposed rules you dislike then I accept that you disagree with my plan. Because those are needed to smooth out the differences between both sides.

I hope you reconsider and give it a second look
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Old 09-27-2009, 11:19 AM   #18
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The strength of my plan is that people know what to expect (what server) before they add.

Unless they add outside their prime-time but in nomanstime
Yes but surely people should be able to opt. for the best game possible; and that surely isn't with 150+ pingers on either side of the continent. It's easy enough for an admin to just change the server to eastcoast if we have enough americans/europeans added; that is unless people whine to much about not getting under 50 in ping... But then again if they do, this won't work anyhow.
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Old 09-27-2009, 11:37 AM   #19
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I'll add my support on this as I don't believe it can do any harm to link the two channels in this manner..

I think it's quite a unique idea and I think it should be given a chance!

What draw backs does it have? Surely we would be able to do !pickup 8 us or !pickup eu 8 if, during no-mans hours, admins wanted to define it from the start.

But I don't see a problem with providing players with more options and easier accessibility to the other (US) community. Personally the only reason I can see that I don't play US is because we are on different IRC servers and I don't connect to gamesurge.
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Old 09-27-2009, 07:01 PM   #20
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I'll add my support on this as I don't believe it can do any harm to link the two channels in this manner..

I think it's quite a unique idea and I think it should be given a chance!

What draw backs does it have? Surely we would be able to do !pickup 8 us or !pickup eu 8 if, during no-mans hours, admins wanted to define it from the start.
Good suggestion. I like it :]
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