Fortress Forever

Go Back   Fortress Forever > Community > Communities, Leagues, Clans and Guilds

View Poll Results: IF we do a draft, would you play even if it meant getting stuck playin w/ some newbs?
Yes 31 62.00%
No 12 24.00%
Maybe 7 14.00%
Voters: 50. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-18-2009, 05:03 PM   #1
Dr.Satan
Wiki Team
Fortress Forever Staff
 
Dr.Satan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Greeley, CO
Class/Position: Med / Solly
Gametype: PAYLOAD
Affiliations: DET-
Posts Rated Helpful 19 Times
UGC league

Ok,

So I've been getting more and more pm's from clan members and pickup players lately asking me if UGC is gonna come back or not. So first off, lemme say, YES always yes...it's just a matter of getting an active clan base to actually play in the league.

That said, I've been tossing around ideas in my head for how to get a league running with the limited player base, AND still keep it fun for all clans involved. And I've come to the following conclusions:
  1. ideally a ladder is the best format for everyone b/c the clan is up against players of relatively equal skill.
  2. we don't have enough clans (that I'm aware of) to touch a ladder concept
  3. the season format is suxorz...it ends up with 1 clan at the top dominating the others and ends in clans quitting b/c it's not fun to get raped 240 - 0 each week by the same people.

So what does that leave us with? Either we do a ladder and hope enough clans build up that it makes it fun OR we throw everyone into a pool, and punish newb clans for joining by pinning them against the top clans. And that is why I have yet to revive UGC...b/c those options suck!

NOW ruta brought up a great idea here(click). I like this idea, it's like a captains pickup only for a season long league! But I have concerns:
  • how many people will join this, go thru the draft, and then quit b/c they didn't end up on the team they wanted to?
  • can people handle breaking up their clans to play in a draft?
  • is it worth it to re-structure UGC to test out this idea?
  • will we have enough people to make a season's worth of teams?

so you tell me...the poll is up, IF I implemented a player draft in UGC, would you play even if it meant getting stuck on a team with some newbs?
__________________
(Released) conc_school | hellion_classic | ksour_PAYLOAD | mulch_faf
(Beta) alchimy_b1
(Lua) base_payload_2015
(Models) props_trainyard
Support FF:

Last edited by Dr.Satan; 09-18-2009 at 06:12 PM.
Dr.Satan is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 09-18-2009, 05:48 PM   #2
Gator-
FF God
 
Gator-'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: TX
Class/Position: Scout O, Medic O, Demo D/O, Soldier D
Gametype: CTF 4v4
Affiliations: [milkwood] ( GoodFellas )
Posts Rated Helpful 1 Times
Send a message via AIM to Gator- Send a message via MSN to Gator- Send a message via Yahoo to Gator-
Ew, no.
Gator- is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 09-18-2009, 06:16 PM   #3
Rutabeggar
D&A Member
 
Rutabeggar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times
For the reasons above...I say you implement it...


Satan, if this does take off, you have my full permission to structure this in any way that is more workable for a smaller or larger league. Take it and run with it. The important thing is to get people involved and excited about playing.

Last edited by Rutabeggar; 09-18-2009 at 06:40 PM.
Rutabeggar is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 09-18-2009, 06:28 PM   #4
KubeDawg
Nade Whore
Server Owner
Beta Tester
 
KubeDawg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Oklahoma
Class/Position: Scout/Soldier
Gametype: CTF/TDM
Affiliations: blunt. Moto
Posts Rated Helpful 128 Times
I love this idea. If I get stuck on a team of newbs, it gives me a chance to teach what I know to players, this increasing their chance of playing FF more often, cause who likes to suck at a game? No one.

And if they're totally awesome and I'm the n00b of the group, it gives me a chance to learn more.

Unless the teams are simply all n00bs then noone will learn.

Maybe have a few appointed people who can prove to be useful in teaching people to play better, and the rest go into a pool?
__________________
Moto's Funhouse | Dallas, TX - 74.91.114.247:27015

ff_plunder - Complete

Last edited by KubeDawg; 09-18-2009 at 06:32 PM.
KubeDawg is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 09-18-2009, 06:34 PM   #5
thiz
Tealeaf
Beta Tester
 
thiz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Scotland
Affiliations: fo!
Posts Rated Helpful 1 Times
I'd play
thiz is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 09-18-2009, 07:51 PM   #6
Rutabeggar
D&A Member
 
Rutabeggar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times
Quote:
Originally Posted by KubeDawg View Post
I love this idea. If I get stuck on a team of newbs, it gives me a chance to teach what I know to players, this increasing their chance of playing FF more often, cause who likes to suck at a game? No one.

And if they're totally awesome and I'm the n00b of the group, it gives me a chance to learn more.

Unless the teams are simply all n00bs then noone will learn.

Maybe have a few appointed people who can prove to be useful in teaching people to play better, and the rest go into a pool?
That's the idea...have 2 established players who know the in's and out's of running a clan, or at least of playing FF who are the captains. There would be no need to rename clans, or drop clan leadership to create new ones. The leaders of the clans already in UGC can just be the ones who are the GM and Coach if you will. Just the rosters are built around players who are drafted. To really get the community involved...the FF servers should host a series of "Combine Nights" where everyone interested in playing in UGC and want to be drafted can show up and play against everyone else in the pool. The leaders of the clans can watch, scout, and draft accordingly.

The idea of the draft league is to maintain interest of clans and clan leaders throughout the season so that every week is competitive and everyone has a chance every week to be the standout clan/star player. Essentially, it creates parity in the FF competitive scene.

Last edited by Rutabeggar; 09-18-2009 at 07:58 PM.
Rutabeggar is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 09-18-2009, 08:01 PM   #7
Z4toichi
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Gametype: Capture the Flag
Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times
I'm Game
Z4toichi is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 09-18-2009, 08:48 PM   #8
Credge
FF Loremaster
Beta Tester
 
Credge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts Rated Helpful 4 Times
I'm fresh.
__________________
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"

Ronald Reagan
Credge is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 09-18-2009, 09:08 PM   #9
Hammock
D&A Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts Rated Helpful 13 Times
You'll need a foolproof system for the pool and how players are placed onto teams.

Or people will find ways around it, like not entering their names into the initial draft, then !adding when the team he wants to be on is next in line to get a new player.
Hammock is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 09-18-2009, 09:54 PM   #10
Rutabeggar
D&A Member
 
Rutabeggar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammock View Post
You'll need a foolproof system for the pool and how players are placed onto teams.

Or people will find ways around it, like not entering their names into the initial draft, then !adding when the team he wants to be on is next in line to get a new player.
Simply make a deadline to enter the draft pool. 3 weeks before the season starts or so, after that the pool is locked and scouting begins, then you have draft day. If they want to be in the free agent pool when the season starts, the only way they can be added to the roster is if a roster spot is available. I think the best way to regulate players is if a player was initially in the draft, but was undrafted, then that is the only way to enter free agency. Then after about half a season, the free agency pool is opened to people outside of the league. If an emergency occurs where a clan is short of players, and there are no players in the free agent pool first, then the other league captains can vote on whether to allow the clan in need to add a player from outside of the league and free agency. I think I'll work on a revised version of the draft league...

Last edited by Rutabeggar; 09-18-2009 at 09:59 PM.
Rutabeggar is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 09-18-2009, 10:54 PM   #11
Hammock
D&A Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts Rated Helpful 13 Times
Quote:
Then after about half a season, the free agency pool is opened to people outside of the league
That is exactly what I'm talking about though, people will wait for the most opportune moment to get on the team they want to be on, even if it means waiting half a season.

I can totally see scenarios where, one team has a newbie on it, so they never let him play. Since he's never allowed to play he might just drop out, freeing up a spot on the team for a new player pick. Then they'll say to their friend "Hey man we have a spot opened up, add to the pool and get assigned to our team.

You might say well then we can have rules to enforce everyone plays atleast half a game every night. But how do you enforce that? Some people dissappear for a couple weeks due to RL issues, so obviously he can't play. The only way to prove it is to have someone taking attendance of every match for every night, and to police people playing who are currently present. If you don't have someone taking attendance then it'd just be someone's word over someone else's.

The draft pool system sounds find in theory, but it has many holes, and people will find their loop holes.

You can't even make player drafts completely random either, cause say one team looses a couple players (for whatever reasons), and they need 1 to 2 guys, but in a randomly assigned system a team with 2 extra players could end up with a 3rd extra person, while the team that needs a guy is still a man down.

Last edited by Hammock; 09-18-2009 at 10:58 PM.
Hammock is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 09-18-2009, 11:20 PM   #12
Rutabeggar
D&A Member
 
Rutabeggar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammock View Post
That is exactly what I'm talking about though, people will wait for the most opportune moment to get on the team they want to be on, even if it means waiting half a season.

I can totally see scenarios where, one team has a newbie on it, so they never let him play. Since he's never allowed to play he might just drop out, freeing up a spot on the team for a new player pick. Then they'll say to their friend "Hey man we have a spot opened up, add to the pool and get assigned to our team.

You might say well then we can have rules to enforce everyone plays atleast half a game every night. But how do you enforce that? Some people dissappear for a couple weeks due to RL issues, so obviously he can't play. The only way to prove it is to have someone taking attendance of every match for every night, and to police people playing who are currently present. If you don't have someone taking attendance then it'd just be someone's word over someone else's.

The draft pool system sounds find in theory, but it has many holes, and people will find their loop holes.

You can't even make player drafts completely random either, cause say one team looses a couple players (for whatever reasons), and they need 1 to 2 guys, but in a randomly assigned system a team with 2 extra players could end up with a 3rd extra person, while the team that needs a guy is still a man down.
I see what you're saying. Obviously there are going to be loop holes and the like...but it's just like the "ringer" loop hole in UGC...you can't really enforce no ringers allowed it if both clans agree and it's not enforced (not even sure if that's a rule...correct me if it is), but you see what I'm saying. Every format for league play has a loop hole. Even leagues in real life have loop holes. If a player in the NFL decides to retire, and come back to a different team, technically he can over and over and over, but it doesn't have a pronounced effect on the overall competitiveness of the league, and I don't think people who really want to play will sit out half or even 3/4 of the season just to play with who they want. There are deficiencies, but they are workable. I'd love to see this format instituted, not because it's my idea, but because it's not the status quo for what the FF community knows, and frankly this community needs a change in what is the norm.
Rutabeggar is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 09-19-2009, 02:10 AM   #13
Credge
FF Loremaster
Beta Tester
 
Credge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts Rated Helpful 4 Times
It's easy to bypass the ringer problem. Simply ensure that it's O.K. for a team to use a ringer from both teams. If this isn't O.K. then it's not a problem. Further, the other team has to know who the ringer is going to be.

That's all that would be required to fill the loop hole. If both teams are aware of the ringer and who he is and both teams are willing to play with that ringer, then great. Why would that be a problem?
__________________
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"

Ronald Reagan
Credge is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 09-19-2009, 02:15 AM   #14
Rutabeggar
D&A Member
 
Rutabeggar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times
Quote:
Originally Posted by Credge View Post
It's easy to bypass the ringer problem. Simply ensure that it's O.K. for a team to use a ringer from both teams. If this isn't O.K. then it's not a problem. Further, the other team has to know who the ringer is going to be.

That's all that would be required to fill the loop hole. If both teams are aware of the ringer and who he is and both teams are willing to play with that ringer, then great. Why would that be a problem?
Because in theory, you could use the same ringer every week...meaning a player would not have to be a part of the draft at all...
Rutabeggar is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 09-19-2009, 02:25 AM   #15
Credge
FF Loremaster
Beta Tester
 
Credge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts Rated Helpful 4 Times
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rutabeggar View Post
Because in theory, you could use the same ringer every week...meaning a player would not have to be a part of the draft at all...
You could if both teams allow it.

Edit: In other words, if the other team doesn't have enough players to play, the team that does have enough players to play could simply say "No, you can't use a ringer."
__________________
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"

Ronald Reagan

Last edited by Credge; 09-19-2009 at 02:26 AM.
Credge is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 09-19-2009, 02:29 AM   #16
Rutabeggar
D&A Member
 
Rutabeggar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times
Quote:
Originally Posted by Credge View Post
You could if both teams allow it.

Edit: In other words, if the other team doesn't have enough players to play, the team that does have enough players to play could simply say "No, you can't use a ringer."
That's true. Then it turns in to a flame war...but I suppose that's a different debate.

Ideally if this is a 4v4 league, and you have a roster of say...7, you wouldn't have to use a ringer.

Roster of 7:

Captain
Captain
5 drafted players in 5 rounds

Last edited by Rutabeggar; 09-19-2009 at 02:34 AM.
Rutabeggar is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 09-19-2009, 04:44 AM   #17
DarkeN_HellspawN
FORUM ADM!N
 
DarkeN_HellspawN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: The Sun
Class/Position: O/D D/O - For life or death
Gametype: 2fort Spectating Llama GD Ex. TALOS Sniper
Affiliations: FF God, The Yellow Brotherhood
Posts Rated Helpful 13 Times
If allowed I could take the league...............

to the next level of playing by just playing alone. I could get raped 5 vs 1 and 500 - 0 and I would still call the other team a bunch of sorry no playing ass bitches. I say put a Yellow Brotherhood member in charge of it.

Viva La Fucking FF!!!!!!!

dh
__________________
If you come across a great Yellow entity offering a yellow pill, take it. Its sunshine will grow in you stomach like a bowl of Sea Monkeys - The Great Yellow Book Page 8765 Ch. 194 -Section 3
DarkeN_HellspawN is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 09-19-2009, 07:52 AM   #18
Credge
FF Loremaster
Beta Tester
 
Credge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts Rated Helpful 4 Times
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rutabeggar View Post
That's true. Then it turns in to a flame war...but I suppose that's a different debate.
It's nothing new though. Teams that don't have the people to show up generally just forfeit. Nothing really new.
__________________
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"

Ronald Reagan
Credge is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 09-19-2009, 09:03 PM   #19
tripleS!X
 
tripleS!X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Ontario, Canada
Class/Position: Scout Offense/ Soldier Defense/ Demo Defense
Gametype: Capture the Flag
Affiliations: :e0: / TALOS
Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times
Send a message via MSN to tripleS!X
i like the idea but....



our clan just revived and was looking forward to playing with them. also have noticed some new tags around who say they are just waiting for a league

so i have mixed feelings on the subject

:e0: stiky
tripleS!X is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 09-19-2009, 09:34 PM   #20
[AE] 82694
Retired FF Staff
 
[AE] 82694's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times
Just to derail this shit with a related topic.

http://forums.fortress-forever.com/s...ewpost&t=20704
__________________
I Love GenghisTron . I miss you sooooo Much. LOL.
[AE] 82694 is offline   Reply With Quote


Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:20 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.