Let's talk about Achievements.

[Bridget]

Can you name one game that both has optional achievements with no reward and achievement servers?

[Gwarsbane]

The only game I play that has achievements is Dirt 2 and all they give is a little in game money towards buying cars, though even if you avoid going for them just winning the races gives you more then enough money for all the vehicles.

It doesn't give you better engines or anything like that and you can get all but just a couple of them offline (I think that there are 3 for online, but again only give you a little game cash).

I don't know if there are any servers out there that get set up for the achievements, but as far as I know there are no actual dedicated servers for the game either.

So I guess the answer is no, I don't know any games with achievements like that.


The only other game I know for sure that has achievements is TF2 and I don't play it, but I do know people run servers when new achievements (and their rewards) come out just to get them. And as I have said before I do not want FF to be turned into another TF2.

[Bridget]

Yeah, and the reason there are achievement servers in TF2 is because unlocks can only be quickly obtained through 'milestones' (awarded after completing so many achievements in a class' achievement pack) Those achievement servers are not there to do achievements, they're there to unlock items.

[Gwarsbane]

Yes but to get the items you have to do the achievements. You can't get one without the other.


That doesn't mean that there won't be achievement servers set up, even just temporary ones to get achievements that have no prize other then a picture and bragging rights.


Can you name any games that have achievements where the only reward is just a picture and bragging rights? I can't (well not sure about Dirt 2 totally cause I have not played online and don't know if there are more online) but this is mainly because I don't play many games.

Mech4 Mercs (8 or so year old game), no achievements.
UT3, no achievements that I know of.
Dirt 2, never played it online so there could be more but I don't know for sure
FF, no achievements

As I have said with or without anything more then a picture and bragging rights, I know there will be people who will specifically try to go for every single achievement and if they have to set up servers to specifically do that they will.

So let them, what harm would it do?

If people come onto public servers and try to grind and the admins don't allow it then they will stop or they will get kicked/banned. Again thats just like any server for any game out there. If they are doing something the admin doesn't like they either stop or they get stopped.


Again I couldn't care less about achievements, but if I'm going to get them anyway while playing them make them interesting and at least a little hard to get to.



Kill someone in the air... ok thats simple...

kill someone in the air, while you are in the air, not so simple, but yet simple...

kill 2 or 3 people in the air (not at once but over a few minutes), while you are in the air without dying in between those kills, not simple.

Do that 100 times and I think its worth a little picture saying you did it.



Get stabbed by a spy, happens every day...

Get stabbed by the same spy 2 or 3 times, again happens everyday...

Get stabbed by the same spy 2 or 3 times in a row without getting killed by anyone else, doesn't happen everyday.

Do that 100 times and I think its worth having a little picture saying it happened to you.


If there are going to be achievements added into the game, then makes lots of them. Make some easy, some hard, some really hard. Some of the achievements I suggested might not be hit for months or even years of playing and thats even with a grind server.

And keep adding them over time.

[Dr.Satan]

Originally Posted by Bridget

Can you name one game that both has optional achievements with no reward and achievement servers?

Resistance Fall of Man...it didn't have servers per-sea b/c you couldn't host private servers but you could run around in groups and play together on the same team. So, people would run around in huge groups that forced the auto-system to put them into one server and then they would just grind. And like I said, the medals/achievements only served as bragging rights once you obtained the suit.

[Bridget]

Originally Posted by Dr.Satan

obtained the suit.

[Dr.Satan]

Originally Posted by Dr.Satan

And the medals didn't mean shit...except that you could view other people's medal page, and once you got all of them you get a different character model that didn't do shit except look different.

[Gwarsbane]

I guess I just don't understand what you are trying to get at?

You seem to be arguing for and against achievements because there might or might not be people who set up grinding servers just to get the achievements that won't have any prizes to them other then a picture and bragging rights.



If you want achievements then you are going to have to deal with the fact that there MIGHT be people who set up grinding servers just to get the achievements.


If you don't want achievements then just say so.





Again my feelings on them are that, I couldn't care less if we have them or not, but if we do, I want easy ones to get, hard ones to get, super hard ones to get and ones in between. I want ones where I have to do stuff to get them, and I want ones that stuff is done to me to get them.

I can deal with people putting up grinding servers to get them, why? Because I won't be going to them. I will continue to just just like I do and if I get an achievement for something I normally do in game then I get an achievement, if I don't I don't.



Sometimes I swear you (and others) argue just to argue.

[Bridget]

People will grind for a player model. They won't grind achievements for achievements.

[Elmo]

Bridget is getting a bit mad about that rather small aspect of it. It hasn't any effect on fellow players - it just doesn't matter...

They'd have to care enough about the game to grind and if it keeps someone playing the game then I'm a happy chappy.

[killu]

FF should never have achievements. Period.

[killu]

That said, they will probably add achievements and take away concs, bhop and grenades and call it FF2.

[zE]

achievements, would be a cool addition to ff imo, it would for sure make some players that care about stats and stuff, play the game longer.

I´m pretty sure devs wont add new weapons and stuff when those achievments are won, but we could have something like medals for each achivement in the models chest lawl.

[Dr.Satan]

rofl

[R00Kie]

LOL

[zE]

something like this would be cool D:
it would help populate + ff servers, and wouldn't affect gameplay so why not D :

[Nezumi]

Originally Posted by Bridget

People will grind for a player model. They won't grind achievements for achievements.

People will grind achievements for achievements. I personally know a lot of people who will play hours of a shitty 360 game just because it's an easy 1000 points. And gamerscore doesn't do anything.

Not that I'm particularly for or against achievements, but if FF ever has unlockables that give a functional advantage to a player, I'll seriously bomb a preschool.

[Bridget]

Well, considering there would be no prizes or unlocks or whatever, then if someone wants to grind achievements then let them grind achievements. Whatever makes them happy, I guess? The idea, however, is that whether someone takes it slow, hits the achievement server once a week, or spends all his time grinding achievements so they're all earned in a day, that the player gets something out of it. I'd rather someone grind really well thought out teaching achievements than monotonous 'do a barrel roll 5,000 times' type achievements.

[KubeDawg]

The only unlocks I would want would be newer and BETTER player models. Not sure how you would be able to control someone from cheating in a game as customizable as this. Achievements to unlock items, weapons, etc would only work if this game were locked down as far as customization is concerned.

[Gwarsbane]

Originally Posted by Bridget

Well, considering there would be no prizes or unlocks or whatever, then if someone wants to grind achievements then let them grind achievements. Whatever makes them happy, I guess? The idea, however, is that whether someone takes it slow, hits the achievement server once a week, or spends all his time grinding achievements so they're all earned in a day, that the player gets something out of it. I'd rather someone grind really well thought out teaching achievements than monotonous 'do a barrel roll 5,000 times' type achievements.

And this is why I suggested all the ones I did because they would be stuff that would be done in the course of a game anyway so with or without an achievement server people will eventually get them.


Its also why I suggested such high numbers and multiple levels so that many of them can not be done in just one day no matter how hard you try so that there are always achievements to strive for.

Sure they are repetitive but if you are doing them over and over again in the course of a game anyway, big deal. And if someone wants to spend an entire day doing the same thing over and over and over again just to get bragging rights that they did it first or just that they did it, they have no life but big deal, its their time.


Its also why I suggested ones where you have almost no control over. The ones where you are killed by someone. Sure it can be done on an achievements server but its gonna require others to help and the more people playing the game in general the better right?


You also don't only have to have teaching achievements. You can have achievements for everything. Jump up and down 10,000, 100,000, 1,000,000 times. Its stupid but you can and I don't actually see any harm to it except for people coming to active servers with people who are just trying to play and them just sitting in spawn doing nothing else. But then thats why we have admins to ask them to either play the game or go to an achievements server to do that. If they are playing while they get achievements then even better cause then at least they are being productive.


I personally could care less about achievements. But if they are in the game, and they are all things I could get while just playing the game, ok great. If not then I won't be getting them. I'm not going to sit on an achievements server all day just to get bragging rights on something. (but thats me, others might)



To make things a little harder for someone just to come in and sit there and jump get an achievement then require it to have a little bit of forward, backward, or side momentum to count. This way they can't just, come into a server, place a weight on the jump key or set up a bind to just jump up and down.

Some more ideas for achievements along with numbers to reach each level. More levels can be added on later if the majority are reaching those levels easily.

I'd put them on the wiki but that didn't seem to work for me last time. Also for all the ones I suggested before that are on the wiki they could all have a few levels to them like the ones below.


Jumping Bean, All Classes, Jump 10,000/100,000/1,000,000 times (requires forward/backward/side momentum)

Super Jumping Bean, All Classes, Double jump 10,000/100,000/1,000,000 times (requires forward/backward/side momentum)

Flying BBQ, Pyro, Kill 1,000/10,000/100,000 people with a flamethrower only while in the air.

Clay pigeon, Any Class, Get gibbed by a sniper while in the air at least double or triple the height off the ground then a jump or double jump could take you (not sure of the units that would require) 100/1,000/10,000 times.